Snowbirds: A Cultural Phenomenon

This program’s original recording transcript is below. This transcription was created automatically during a live program so may contain inaccurate transcriptions of some words.

Ari Goldstein: i'm Ari Goldstein Senior Public programs producer at the museum Jewish heritage living memorial to the Holocaust and i'm excited to kick off this evening's program snowbirds a cultural phenomenon.

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Ari Goldstein: Many of us have known and loved snowbirds in our own lives, that is seniors especially Jewish seniors who fly South for the winter to escape the cold.

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Ari Goldstein: My own grandparents were snowbirds originally fleeing from Poland to New York in the 1920s and then, year after year and their retirement fleeing from New York to Florida to enjoy the sun.

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Ari Goldstein: But there may not be anyone today who knows snowbirds and the world they built down south as well as Naomi Harris visual artists who moved into South Miami beach hotel between 1999 2002 to immerse herself in their world and documented for posterity.

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Ari Goldstein: They own these bright colorful portraits of the bubbehs and zaidehs in South Miami beach, or what we're here tonight to celebrate explore and learn from.

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Ari Goldstein: You can find them all in her newly released book The had in the hall named for the hotel she called home, you can order your copy at the link in the zoom chat.

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Ari Goldstein: Our host this evening and they always conversation partner is Michael Clinton a writer photographer and magazine executive, who was among many other roles publisher of gq magazine Michael has published eight of his own photography books and as a trustee at the International.

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Naomi Harris: Center on WiFi.

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Ari Goldstein: His newest book is roar into the second half of your life before it's too late, Michael Naomi welcome Thank you guys, for being here this evening.

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Ari Goldstein: Thank you, as Michael and Naomi chat tonight, please feel free to share your questions in the zoom Q amp a box and get to as many as we can, towards the end of the hour, that further ado, Michael feel free to kick us off.

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Michael Clinton: Thank you area, let me add my thanks to everyone for joining us tonight, especially my friends from Pittsburgh my hometown i'm coming into you from New York City.

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Michael Clinton: But let me start by telling you a little bit about the remarkable and talented Naomi Harris tonight's guests photographer and presenter.

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Michael Clinton: she's a native of Toronto, but live for over 22 years in the US 15 in New York City a couple in Miami and for in Los Angeles.

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Michael Clinton: She graduated from York university and is currently pursuing an MFA in studio art at the university at buffalo in New York, while commuting to Toronto, to take care of them all.

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Michael Clinton: They only actually started out in my business the magazine business, but at the age of 26 realize that her true calling was to pursue photography.

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Michael Clinton: she's a proud graduate of ICP international Center photography's one year certificate program so she's part of my world in that regards where she was launched into her creative future.

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Michael Clinton: Since then, she has won many accolades and International Prize for young photojournalism grants from the Canada council for the arts a New York foundation for arts fellowship and more.

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Michael Clinton: One of my favorite stories that she told me is that she received a grant to embark on a 70 day canoe trip.

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Michael Clinton: Following the first traders route in Ontario retracing the journey of British painter Francis and Hopkins who worked in the on the art world and women's roles in it at that time.

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Michael Clinton: Naomi has also published three books of her work, including America swings USA, and of course hadn't Hall, which is why we're all here tonight.

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Michael Clinton: As a true practitioner of her craft Naomi is what I call a photographer's photographer as she has captured in historic moment in time, with this great body of work that you're going to see tonight.

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Michael Clinton: Having a Hall, a place some of you may have known has come to life in her book and a collection of photography available for purchase, I might add, the photography and the book so without further ado, please join me in welcoming the incredible Naomi Harris Naomi.

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Naomi Harris: Thank you, Michael that's quite the introduction, I really appreciate that i'm not sure if it's if I have it, but it's just on.

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Naomi Harris: There we go there's a slideshow so Basically, this is the book, but I will show the book again afterwards, because I think everyone's just seeing the slideshow and what i'd like to do to kick this night off is read an excerpt from my book, from the essay I wrote in.

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Naomi Harris: It and it goes a little something like this reading glasses on.

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Naomi Harris: My chosen family I hadn't whole all the typical socio normative rules existed, the popular girl the comedian a loner the jazz about.

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Naomi Harris: The group dynamics brought to mind the same anxieties that plague us all, but with the senior twist the endless resident gossip the mean girls who picked on a woman who used to wet herself.

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Naomi Harris: Everyone wanting to sit at the cool kids table during being though it all felt sadly familiar.

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Naomi Harris: But the residents could also be kind and generous to one another, sharing snacks picking up a prescription at the pharmacy or just lending a helping hand.

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Naomi Harris: They showed me that we spend our lives being a parent a partner and a useful member of society, only to reach a stage of life, where many of us fear will be reduced to no longer having a sense of purpose.

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Naomi Harris: But with determination and tenacity, the seniors found ways to stay busy and add meaning to their day and lives.

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Naomi Harris: Sylvia before I could even get the key in the door of my room Sylvia the hotels matriarch came careening through the hallway with her Walker she quickly pounced on the opportunity to speak with someone new and young.

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Naomi Harris: I had a lot riding on this undertaking having sublet my apartment and use all of my savings to Bruce my first long term personal projects.

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Naomi Harris: I was nervous about its feasibility I didn't know where to begin so silky is breaking the ice brought me tremendous relief.

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Naomi Harris: Her seal of approval immediately opened doors for me with the other hotel guests.

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Naomi Harris: Sylvia always did it she wished curiosity drove the 98 year old ex New York spinster she was up for anything, including clubbing.

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Naomi Harris: intrigued by a TV commercial for club Madonna the strip club next door she enlisted me as her date to the club.

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Naomi Harris: gussied up to the occasion, we made it as far as the Velvet rope out front, but neither one of us had enough money to cover the pricey two drink minimum charge, so we quickly sculpt back to the hotel.

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Naomi Harris: Sylvia had said she never expected to live as long as she had something many of the hotel occupants echoed.

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Naomi Harris: Ever prepared she slept with a handbag at the foot of her bed with a note pin to the outside that read sylvia's prepaid cremation papers, so the hotel would know what to do with her if she woke up a lucky stiff.

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Naomi Harris: That was her job when she died, two years later at the age of 100 the funeral home where she had pre purchase or cremation many years earlier begrudgingly perform the service.

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Naomi Harris: begrudgingly because the price has increased drastically, since she purchased the funeral package rose.

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Naomi Harris: rose sylvia's friend of many years lived in the same in some of the same hotels that Sylvia dead and they relocated together several times.

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Naomi Harris: Ultimately they ended up neighbors that had in Hall, at one time a brilliant woman rose suffered from alzheimer's and often wandered the hallways in her nightgown.

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Naomi Harris: Sylvia checked in on her to make sure there was food in the refrigerator and that she ate.

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Naomi Harris: So rose was often nonverbal glimpses of a formal self Sean through when we exchanged pleasantries she sometimes invited me into her room for a visit.

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Naomi Harris: With these moments of lucidity were fleeting she wants made me a cup of coffee with her denture soaking in the sink alongside.

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Naomi Harris: One day on my way to visit rose I discovered the hotel had cleared for room for a new guests, this is how I learned that for children have placed in a nursing home.

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Naomi Harris: gina gina spent eight months a year in coney island and her winters at the hotel extremely private only shooting she knew her exact age.

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Naomi Harris: She turtles onto the hotel dance floor swaying and shimmying suggestively and hit on all the men, regardless of age.

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Naomi Harris: Although she was the same generation as the others her effervescent personality separate part she photographed easily and effortlessly.

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Naomi Harris: gina heard when she talked she smoked drank and put her put her legs behind her head.

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Naomi Harris: She were agent appropriate clothing that upset the more conservative sensibilities of the other women at the hotel I loved her for.

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Naomi Harris: She said, water and thought she was foolish, but she didn't care she told me she found the dough an unattractive.

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Naomi Harris: In this book central gina lives in an autodesk post behind her a wall plastered with headshots of Hollywood heartthrobs and starlets reveals a glamorous young gina today between.

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Naomi Harris: Sorry glamorous young gina talk between images of starlets Marilyn Monroe and Veronica lake gina's headshot more than bolted zone.

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Naomi Harris: gina for aging eminently and use your sexuality, to get what she wanted rumor had it, she was involved with the Polish underground I like to think of her having seduced Nazis and slitting their throats when she was three with them.

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Naomi Harris: Claremont Denise and Madeline the three aboriginal French Canadian sisters clements Denise neverland did everything together.

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Naomi Harris: That included meals beach and swimming pool outings and card games mainly they kept to themselves.

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Naomi Harris: Denise an 85 year old widow, and her 90 year old sister Madeline summered on a reservation in a small Quebec town and spent the winter with your younger sister clemens.

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Naomi Harris: The latter lived full time at the hotel with her American husband Madeline a former none with no children have around relied on to needs to care for her despite the widow's persistent health problems.

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Naomi Harris: Their trips South came to an end and Madeline sorry when madeline's alzheimer's progressed making travel and possible.

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Naomi Harris: I spent many evenings and Denise and madeline's room playing cards they're warm dispositions maybe feel welcome.

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Naomi Harris: One night I had an allergic reaction to a medication and headed to the room, I was afraid to be alone I started going into an electric shock and SMEs to accompany me to be er she suggested we take the bus by insisted on a taxi this was no time to be frugal.

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Naomi Harris: Pearl melancholy sometimes hung in the air, have had and hall and pro was one of the hotels more despondent residents.

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Naomi Harris: In her 90s, she had long outlived her siblings husband and only daughter she married young and never worked so when her husband died of a heart attack at age 50 she relied on his pension and lived a fruitful life.

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Naomi Harris: her daughter married and help support Pearl but she died at a young age childless we can pull alone, she often talked about her child, she had never expected to live this long.

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Naomi Harris: in and out of hospitals her entire life, separate from numerous elements, including a heart condition parkinson's disease and back problems.

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Naomi Harris: alone and unable to sleep, more than three hours and make due to her pain pro said she saw no point in her existence, when I asked her if she ever considered suicide she replied know the thought was too scary but should God choose to take her, she gladly go.

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Naomi Harris: I once accompanied her to the doctors for an electrocardiogram ekg test as she lay on the examination table, I noticed the children sandals on her feet.

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Naomi Harris: Pearl often board children's clothing, as it fit herd immunity frame fest the giant juxtaposition of the suction cups and tubes of the ekg machine hooked up to her legs alongside her beauty and the beast sandals struck me as bittersweet.

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Naomi Harris: Mary and Mary Mary a devout Catholic and marry a Jewish Holocaust survivor traveled South together every winter from Montreal.

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Naomi Harris: They delighted in fashion wearing the latest styles and attended every dance performance of the event held at the hotel.

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Naomi Harris: They were best friends, but had a competitive streak they vide for the attention of men and friends like.

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Naomi Harris: Mary didn't like to share Marie with others once when a fellow hotel guests had taken a bad fall Murray had helped by washing her hair.

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Naomi Harris: Mary salts jealous of the attention the other woman received, but such clerics like this were short lived and their friendship always resumed.

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Naomi Harris: As in life in general, the women have oh sorry Sam as in life in general, the women that had in hall outnumbered the men.

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Naomi Harris: One of these men was Sam climb a rare gem twice a widower Sam lost his first wife and child in Auschwitz he survived because of his skills as a tailor sewing Nazi uniforms during the war.

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Naomi Harris: He emigrated to New York and open to dry cleaning business later he married his sister in law also a survivor of the war and they had a daughter together.

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Naomi Harris: his usual routine routine consisted of taking a snort of brandy right out of the bottle every morning having a breakfast of cornflakes served in a mug and talking weekly on the phone with his daughter in California.

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Naomi Harris: on Sundays he waited by the phone until the call came, sometimes it didn't come.

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Naomi Harris: being extremely hard of hearing Sam kept to himself, but a sweetness Sean through every time I visited him he greeted me with a rendition of Rosemary clooney kamata my house slipping a hard candy into my hand.

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Naomi Harris: guest appearances, some of the occupants have had in hall heads leading roles, sometimes due to shyness or a sense of privacy or because of illness or death.

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Naomi Harris: Even though I knew leave for only a few weeks I remember her long fingernails and chain smoking when I asked her why she grew her nail she shrugged replied I don't know, I guess, I like them long she died of emphysema a few weeks later.

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Naomi Harris: deke an Italian new yorker lived in the hotel full time and regale me with stories of his younger days at the Copacabana club during the 1950s.

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Naomi Harris: pulling out a business card from an escort he told me it doesn't matter if you have snow on the roof if you're a man you're always interested in women.

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Naomi Harris: Helen was also a lifer and she raved about her son the doctor though he only visited once a year for a day.

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Naomi Harris: snowbird Betty kept to herself, always with her nose in a dirty harlequin romance novel.

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Naomi Harris: IDA a sweet grandmother from brooklyn emigrated as a child from Poland, she lifted to pan weights in her room as though she were training for missile Olympia.

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Naomi Harris: Sue scored the stock market section of the paper daily as if monitoring investments, these were my friends.

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Michael Clinton: Thank you Naomi that was an incredible sneak peek at what was happening at.

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Michael Clinton: haddon Hall, and here we are.

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Michael Clinton: i'll invite anyone to put questions into the Q amp a chat.

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Michael Clinton: And i'm going to kick off with a couple of questions, the first one is what told you instinctively that the residents of having hall.

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Michael Clinton: would be a subject for this photographic essay because it was it, it was a true sort of photographers instinct but you know how did you know that you were going to capture this really unique moment in time.

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Naomi Harris: You know, to be honest, I didn't realize at the time, what I was photographing um I initially went down to Miami beach to.

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Naomi Harris: I was going to pursue a project and photographing Holocaust survivors and I had found a like a lunch program at a Community Center.

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Naomi Harris: In South beach, and there were some people there were survivors, but a lot of people were just survivors of life, they were just you know, making their way.

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Naomi Harris: Being on a fixed income being on a pension and being old and in a world where people don't really pay attention to those members of society.

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Naomi Harris: And it was rainy one day and I took a group a couple of women back.

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Naomi Harris: To they didn't want to wait for the bus, and I said Oh, I have a car, do you want me to give you a lift and yeah right, that would be terrific and I dropped them off with this little hotel.

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Naomi Harris: And i'm like this is where you live, you live in the hotel and they said yeah this is live a couple of them were snowbirds but a couple of them live there year round and.

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Naomi Harris: they're like we're having a dance tonight, why don't you come okay sure, and I was staying a few blocks away I rented a condominium through the Canadian Jewish news.

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Naomi Harris: Over at the Shell born hotel so it's only a few blocks away so I walked over that night and I went to the hotel and I couldn't believe what I was seeing like this lobby, full of old people dancing.

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Naomi Harris: And I was like okay i'm leaving tomorrow, but I have to come back so I decided to come back the next year and document the hotel, but again I didn't realize, because you know, I was 26 at the time, or you know I didn't know what that it was the end of the year.

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Michael Clinton: yeah what we have a question from Jane Hill, which is you read as if detached from the subjects, but you must to become attached to some after spending so much time with them and their stories, can you comment on on a few that you really became attached to.

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Naomi Harris: Well, Sam was my.

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Naomi Harris: out now favorite I love Sam and it was definitely difficult to talk with him because he was so appearing I guess it prepared me for living with my dad years later um but they they all had special qualities to them, there were certain women that I was definitely like Sylvia was my.

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Naomi Harris: She was very dear to me and.

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Naomi Harris: Mona who I didn't talk much about her, and there were several I mean, basically, I really did have fun relationships with everybody, sometimes I would get annoyed.

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Naomi Harris: As I mentioned, when I first started reading the first exercise, there was a woman there that was incontinent and she often wet herself, and it was no fault of her own she was just a little bit.

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Naomi Harris: A little bit I think a lot of it was she was hard of hearing and sometimes the.

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Naomi Harris: The other women would be mean to her and when she sit down next to them in the lobby, they would say get away go sit somewhere else, and I, I often would say to them don't behavior like that that's not Nice and it felt like you know telling children.

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Naomi Harris: know these people were definitely like when I lived in Miami I don't know for anyone who's lived if you, you know spent time in Miami it's a very transient city and it's really hard to make friends, these are my friends.

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Michael Clinton: that's great we have a few questions on one of them, Jeremy which is were people willing to speak openly about things survivors of life.

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Michael Clinton: Or the Holocaust and another question how did they feel about being photographed did anyone asked them did anyone say, please don't photograph me, I mean or was it sort of an open open set, if you will.

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Naomi Harris: I mean, as I photographed everything I photographs in life i've been a photographer for over 20 years gosh.

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Naomi Harris: I don't want to make anyone uncomfortable and if someone does not want to be photographed I don't photograph them i'm very comfortable with that I don't need to.

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Naomi Harris: force anybody to do something they know and trust me there were times, where I would see something i'm like Oh, I would love to photograph in that, right now, but I respect people's wishes i'm.

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Naomi Harris: make sense.

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Naomi Harris: People they'd be sorry.

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Michael Clinton: Now that makes sense as a photographer.

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Naomi Harris: Right yeah but, most people they really did they felt special like by me photographing them that I was paying attention to them and for them a lot of people like I mentioned Helen.

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Naomi Harris: She would always talk about my son the doctor her son the doctor would come one day a year he lived in Atlanta, and he can come one day a year to visit so.

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Michael Clinton: ya know it's Steve who's one of our viewers said it's.

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Michael Clinton: actually very sad that their children.

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Michael Clinton: You know, rarely came to visit there that they had a you know sort of sad and not.

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Michael Clinton: very glamorous life.

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Michael Clinton: At the end at the end of their lives, I think, when we were talking, because in the 1990s 1996 when you went there the the snowbirds which were you know 20,000 plus prior to the gentrification of Miami.

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Michael Clinton: They shrunk it got smaller and smaller and smaller and everybody who was remaining sort of aggregated into this one hotel.

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Michael Clinton: yeah which we know last stop, and you know shelley asks was this you know, a room with a kitchenette or was it an apartment hotel and, by the way, where did all those other people go who would live there.

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Naomi Harris: you mean.

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Michael Clinton: The snowbirds where did they go they were pushed out.

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Naomi Harris: They will.

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Naomi Harris: show exactly so some of them so as they were getting moved around they would end up at different hotels, the drexel was one of them, that was there at the end.

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Naomi Harris: i'm having a hard time with the names of the others, but George Washington was another one, but they all ultimately ended up here, because all the other hotels had already.

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Naomi Harris: Right pick them out renovated, and so the snowbirds themselves, like the ones who live there, who are your rounders are lifers as I call them.

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Naomi Harris: They either like parole ended up having to go to a nursing home Sam he had a caregiver through his his daughter had someone that would come in and look in on him every.

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Naomi Harris: few days like we're actually I think she tried, we come almost daily, and she ultimately had to move into her home with her.

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Naomi Harris: And she was like from Ghana and picture this little Jewish man living in this very.

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Naomi Harris: African American neighborhood in Miami but she was like a daughter to him, she treated him so beautifully.

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Naomi Harris: The others some kept coming and then 911 happened and so gentrification was one thing, but once 911 happened many of them were too scared to travel and that was the beginning of the end that was really.

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Michael Clinton: yeah did you follow any of them after the photo essay that you produced at you know in subsequent years, did you follow any of their lives, the ones that you stay close to.

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Naomi Harris: yeah so gina I would see her sometimes in brooklyn um you have to remember, most of these people were in there, eight like it was before Internet so i'm.

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Naomi Harris: Like I have some letters like sometimes we wrote letters, a couple of the women and myself, would write letters, but a lot of them wouldn't necessarily like nobody had email, it was before then, and so those zoom calls that's for sure.

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Naomi Harris: And a lot of them wouldn't even call long distance if.

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Naomi Harris: You know what I mean.

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let's.

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Michael Clinton: Go back to the question about where they really to speak openly about being survivors, whether it was.

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Naomi Harris: up the Holocaust, no, I mean the Holocaust, there were only a couple there that were survivors Sam was one of them, but, as I mentioned, he was very hard of hearing, so he didn't discuss it much or at all, to be honest gina I know that she was.

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Naomi Harris: In the Polish underground, but she would not talk about it a lot of them, they were they had come to America at like age to IDA came I had an accident, but she came as a child so she lived she came before the Holocaust um so a lot of them.

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Naomi Harris: Have the ones who were in the Holocaust like Marie she would not talk about it Evelyn she yeah so no they, but they were talking about their lives they didn't mind talking about that, but they did not want to talk about the Holocaust.

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Michael Clinton: What one one of our viewers said that the snowbirds that she knows on their own apartments which they use during the winter they don't go to hotels, but these these individuals you photographed.

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Michael Clinton: It would appear, they didn't really have the means they didn't have the ability to own a hotel or even starting department or rent even rent an apartment they.

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Michael Clinton: need it.

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Michael Clinton: Is that is that true.

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Naomi Harris: yeah So this was people living, I mean, and this is what's to me what's so sad about the end of this Miami beach era.

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Naomi Harris: It was a slice of time when people with little means I mean they had a pension, maybe they had a little bit of money saw salted away and they could go and enjoy the beautiful paradise of the weather of South beach where.

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Naomi Harris: I don't think there's anywhere in America, you could do that today, if you.

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Naomi Harris: Were on a fixed income.

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Naomi Harris: You can't do that it's just a small slice of time that's true.

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Michael Clinton: Did the did the hotel or in the Community offer these folks.

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Naomi Harris: Activities dances yes or.

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Michael Clinton: sox's.

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Naomi Harris: Did you say yes yeah.

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Naomi Harris: yeah so twice twice a week there was Bingo um or maybe even three times a week there was being though there were dances twice a week, sometimes they would have comedians come.

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Naomi Harris: And that would have been all the hotels, at one time and South beach had entertainment and the obvious right yeah.

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Michael Clinton: One of the questions was did they have shabbat elevators.

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Michael Clinton: No, no, no.

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Naomi Harris: It was only three stories five.

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Naomi Harris: So if you did that I know of hotels further down the beach that did do that, but this was nobody was orthodox at this hotel, I mean Sam kept Chavez, but like no one was orthodox so no nose no elevators.

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Michael Clinton: Right right to talk about your your your at the evolution of being being a photographer and how your craft evolved and also this was a really seminal project for you, as a young woman and.

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Michael Clinton: How did your Jewish heritage play into your work, how does it play into work today is that something you think about when looking for a project, I mean this was.

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Michael Clinton: This must have been a sort of profound experience, for you know, a young person to come across this.

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Michael Clinton: This group of people in this in this condition and with their histories and their background, it must have been sort of a huge you know eye opening experience which you captured so beautifully in these images.

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Naomi Harris: Thank you okay so there's many parts of this where do I start um well when I was at York university here in Toronto, I was actually studying printmaking and I use a lot of photographs but found.

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Michael Clinton: photographs.

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Naomi Harris: In my printmaking, so I would source images out of books magazines, and this is going to date me this was pre Google, this is the Internet.

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Naomi Harris: So if I wanted to write it, I think, are many of us on this call, who.

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Michael Clinton: were around for free Google.

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Naomi Harris: Right, so if I wanted to find a picture and I couldn't find it in magazine I didn't have.

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Naomi Harris: The Internet, to find.

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Naomi Harris: It so I decided to take a photo class and then I went to Europe that summer.

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Naomi Harris: I came back, I saw my pictures, I was like.

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Naomi Harris: Oh, this is what it's Okay, this is what I want to do so that's how I got I kind of fell into photography I wasn't like one of these people that are like I got my first camera at eight years old, but just by chance into.

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Naomi Harris: It um as far as the hotel itself goes I think there's growing up in in Toronto, where all my friends, you know we would all be in school and in December we break for the you know the winter break the winter holidays.

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Naomi Harris: And we'd all leave the same color and they come back from the winter break all Nice and sun kissed and tanned and i'd still be this you know pale shade of pale you know.

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Naomi Harris: And they'd all be going down to visit their babies and CDs and Florida, and like the.

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Naomi Harris: comment earlier, most of them that their family had condominiums and you know they these were wealthy people have Toronto, these were went to a private Jewish school, and so a lot of these kids they came from families who had places and my grandmother she.

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Naomi Harris: was a single mother and she worked really hard and but she did not have the means to be able to be to have a condominium down there, or even to be able to afford to go to a hotel like had in hall.

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Naomi Harris: So I always had this sort of this idea of what Miami was and I wanted to see it for myself, so I finally you know i'd hear everyone talking about who here remembers the rascal house.

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Naomi Harris: And the getting you know your your your your chicken in the pod at the rascal house or the breakfast and you had the prune Danish is and all the little takeaway food that from there, I just really wanted to see what Miami was all about and that's kind of how it all rolled into one.

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Michael Clinton: Well Steve on one of our viewers points out, which I really hadn't thought about the year that actually Miami vice, the first season of Miami vice was in 1984 and the MTV real world in the fifth season of Miami beach.

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Michael Clinton: You know, was not too long there after, but if you flash forward from 84 to 96 you know a lot happened in what was not called South beach at the time, but there was a lot of.

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Michael Clinton: of evolution and that started and then move very quickly in this in this evolution of what we all knew in this last moment in time that you captured and, of course, was completely gone, you know, a couple years later.

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Michael Clinton: So it was It moved pretty pretty quickly you taught.

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Naomi Harris: me moves very.

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Naomi Harris: Fast it's a city that like, if you look at its history, it was founded, it was coconut farms, and it was land that was taken away from you know native people, and then it was.

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Naomi Harris: The they had built huge mansions and it was a playground for the extremely wealthy, but then they had a hurricane in the 20s and then the rich, you want to go there, and so it really is a very cyclical town.

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Michael Clinton: haha so interesting Claire is saying that you grew up in South beach in the 16th.

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Michael Clinton: So she knew the life being discussed there very well hadn't hall was a few blocks from my junior high school so someone had asked her.

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Michael Clinton: was in fact that a real place, yes, it was she went to high school with Andy sweet, and she and another viewer Susan asked if you knew his work he photograph life and the old South beach.

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Naomi Harris: walk over there.

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Naomi Harris: I did not know.

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Naomi Harris: md or of his work, back then, because, again, it was before it was pre Internet time since his work at kind of not been rediscovered yet.

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Naomi Harris: And it was.

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Naomi Harris: Through this movie that was on netflix.

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Naomi Harris: That and this beautiful book of his.

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Naomi Harris: Right, and I mean when I look at that work i'm always like wow we really lost a true talent and he looks like he was a real match and.

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Michael Clinton: So, so you couldn't have been influenced by him because you didn't know.

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Michael Clinton: Which is always the best for a photographer to have your pardon the expression, a blank slate.

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Michael Clinton: To work from without the influence of other photographers and to.

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Michael Clinton: sort of have it in your own with your own visual I and what what you capture I mean, I think, just as a as a photographer myself and as a trustee for the international Center photography.

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Michael Clinton: The the Poignant moments, and the details of what you captured.

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Michael Clinton: was and is so unique in terms of I mean you could have gone and done portraits of these people, and that would have been quite nice but you've captured them in situ.

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Michael Clinton: In a way that they really you know come to life, for us, you know we can see, you know the one i'm forgetting her name the one who was all dolled up and beautiful with her.

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Michael Clinton: gina gina I mean you can see, you know you can just the way you photographed her in her various stages, you can see what she was like and our personalities like so you really captured many of their personalities.

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Michael Clinton: beyond just doing the usual you know photographers portrait so you know, obviously, that was by by kept your eye and and and by design.

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Naomi Harris: For me, it was really important to live in the UK, I mean I lived in a hotel for two.

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Naomi Harris: Months myself and actually getting back to one of the questions previously.

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Naomi Harris: Not all rooms had kitchens my room that I stayed in did not have a kitchen it had I think of fridge but it didn't have a kitchen, but most of the people who the snowbirds they all got rooms that were like little efficiency so.

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Naomi Harris: It would have a twin bed usually not double but, like a twin bed sometimes two twin beds.

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Naomi Harris: And then it would have a little kitchen like a stove and a fridge so people could make their meals for themselves, and some people didn't meals on wheels, so that they could actually heat up their meals after the fact um it was kind of like a little sro if you will.

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Michael Clinton: yeah it was interesting, as you mentioned that there were an Italian from brooklyn French Canadians indigenous Jews Catholics, did they did they mix together or.

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Michael Clinton: yeah yeah.

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Naomi Harris: Most part.

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Michael Clinton: I mean we're community.

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Naomi Harris: They were exactly they looked out for each other, I mean there were a couple that like I mentioned the the one woman and her name is escaping me now where they were very mean to her, because she you know, and it was to throw through no fault of our own but, for example.

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Naomi Harris: Denise clements and Madeline the three French Canadian sisters, they were and I didn't realize that they were.

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Naomi Harris: aboriginal they didn't tell me until much later on, they have they hit that part because they weren't sure I mean and now years later, knowing that they probably went through residential school like this is something that wasn't aware that I wasn't aware of 20 years ago, but now I am.

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Naomi Harris: I think they probably kept it a secret for good cause most of the people were Jewish there, though not everyone, but most were Jewish but they didn't create problems like that everyone got along with each other.

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Michael Clinton: There was a Steve makes the point that, because of anti semitism that existed in Miami many Jews had to live south of fifth street.

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Michael Clinton: Yes, wasn't until later that more of Miami beach opened up to Jewish residents did did you get any sense I mean this was 1996 so it was.

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Naomi Harris: 1999 actually.

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Naomi Harris: Sorry 1920.

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Michael Clinton: So things had evolved a bit, but did you get any any sense of of that at all, while you were doing your project.

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Naomi Harris: Oh, I mean when he's talking about when when Jews were know what we're not allowed to live north of fifth street that was, I think, in the late 30s and 40s I think.

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Naomi Harris: By the 50s that had.

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Naomi Harris: changed already I could be wrong, but he's definitely right that did exist, but that was much earlier.

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Michael Clinton: i'm done and.

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Michael Clinton: So one of the one of the question, or one of our viewers said that she agrees, because she grew up there in the 70s i'm assuming that she's she's saying there was anti semitism that was that was there.

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Michael Clinton: You know lingering there so just it just it just a comment.

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Michael Clinton: I how many.

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Michael Clinton: How many i'm curious how many total images you've produced in the project, not that are in the book, but the total number of images.

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Michael Clinton: Do you have.

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Naomi Harris: I don't know i've never sat and counted them like it's.

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Michael Clinton: it's a.

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Naomi Harris: Great shot hundreds sure, because I shot probably.

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Naomi Harris: At least 100 rolls of film don't forget it was a film, it was so wrong.

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Naomi Harris: Each robot film had 36.

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Naomi Harris: exposures, but not every picture is going to be good and.

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Michael Clinton: So y'all remember those days before we some of us went.

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Naomi Harris: On chrome.

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Michael Clinton: yeah exactly and you have.

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Michael Clinton: You obviously selected for the book X number of images and you have put together, I believe.

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Michael Clinton: You put together five limited editions of images were, though, is that correct and we're those your favorite images or how did you select.

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Naomi Harris: Though yeah so what you're referring to is actually so I had an exhibition back in 2004 and I made.

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Naomi Harris: A process called Ciba chrome's.

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Naomi Harris: which they like they don't do that process anymore, because it was a very toxic and be people just do everything on the computer these days, but that was like taking your slide film into the dark room.

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Naomi Harris: So instead of printing a negative you're printing from a positive, so I made I picked 18 images and yeah exactly they were my my favorite 18 images and.

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Naomi Harris: I made five a set of five five it's an addition of five, so the set is 18 pictures in addition of five and.

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Naomi Harris: i'll just move my computer a bit there, they are i'm in my parents House so there's the three sisters coming out of the water there's Evelyn at the hairdresser Vida lifting the weights Maria the pool and re and her stockings and Madeline in the pool up above but yeah.

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Michael Clinton: So right that's great and these these are your personal favorites these 18 imagery.

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Naomi Harris: Yes, when I printed that show they were my personal favorites and.

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Naomi Harris: All of them there may be a couple that are not in the book but what's also interesting is I was speaking to.

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Naomi Harris: A book publisher back in 2000 I laughed I love that some people have like four shoes hidden somewhere on them i'm like Charlie Brown, I have a cloud over my head, I always have a bit of bad luck, like, I was supposed to do this talk in person.

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Naomi Harris: Oh hi oh.

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Michael Clinton: Welcome, welcome to girl.

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Michael Clinton: yeah 111 of the things which I think is always.

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Michael Clinton: Important that i've learned mostly through my being a collector of photography myself and knowing many photographers and if the ICP is when the photographer herself.

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Michael Clinton: selects the favorite images that's always a very special thing because they live to the whole experience they they know the stories but.

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Michael Clinton: The art of, that is, you know is you know all the stories, but the average viewer of your photograph doesn't necessarily have the history and the story, so you have to be balanced, the two of those things which I think you captured very well in your your selection.

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well.

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Naomi Harris: I was gonna say that in the book what's interesting is I was supposed to do a book in.

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Naomi Harris: We were, I was talking to a publisher and then, of course, a little thing like 911 happened, so no one was interested in this and I put all the pictures away and.

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Naomi Harris: i'm really glad I did it because I think it has a different voice now 20 years later, and there were a lot of images in the book that I would.

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Michael Clinton: not have.

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Naomi Harris: even considered early on, like 20 years ago they were like what you call your bs or your see selects not my age shots, but I think now so many years later.

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Naomi Harris: It flows better and the story is told better by including images that were you know slightly weaker pictures, but they brought on a new life because they change over time.

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Naomi Harris: Oh, Michael are you frozen.

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Naomi Harris: Oh.

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Is it me that's frozen.

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Naomi Harris: Oh sorry.

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Ari Goldstein: I Naomi I think Michael is frozen but that's how we can chat for a couple minutes.

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Naomi Harris: Great we can go see what's going on in the Q amp a while michaels' frozen okay so don't be where the their grandchildren coming in and out of the hotel to visit during winter break not so many there was a couple of grandchildren that would come, but i'm not that many came over there.

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Ari Goldstein: Now me I question so you were competing earlier about the class distinctions between the different groups of words in Miami beach, and you mentioned that.

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Ari Goldstein: There was a great sense of community among everybody who's in the hat and Hall, but was there two people have a chip on their shoulder about not having the same sort of snowbird experience as people who were able to own condos.

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Naomi Harris: I don't think I mean if that existed I don't I don't recall anyone being like oh those people are like that they.

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Naomi Harris: I don't think they cared I think they were just look happy with themselves and in their own lives, like they would all get together and maybe.

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Naomi Harris: If they could walk they would sometimes what what every year what one of the nice things the hotel did do they always had a new year's Eve party so everyone got very dressed up for the new year's Eve party and.

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Naomi Harris: That they supplied a little bit of wine or little you know, there was a little snack and the other thing that the hotel did was for Canada, they would give them a gift certificate.

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Naomi Harris: To go to wolf ease which wasn't too far away, and they would pile into a taxi or walk at the ones that could walk and.

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Naomi Harris: You know, no one ever said to themselves, like oh we're not as good as the other people like I think they were just, I think, in general, people were happy with what they had that and there was no.

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Naomi Harris: There was no problems they didn't.

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Naomi Harris: Say Oh, those are fancy people were were not.

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Naomi Harris: Welcome back.

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Michael Clinton: Thank you, I.

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Michael Clinton: Apparently lost my Internet connection I was just I sorry, welcome to the world of zoom and technology, so I don't want to interrupt your your comment go ahead.

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Naomi Harris: you're just filling in we were.

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Michael Clinton: All the jobs to everyone who's who's.

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Michael Clinton: Listening in but.

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Michael Clinton: That good old technology thing.

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Michael Clinton: i'm trying to figure out where we are in a pickup I want to pick up on the thread I do want to talk a little bit about you know creative passion which you discovered when you were 26 which is.

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Michael Clinton: And i'm a big believer that people can find a creative passion at any time in their life what What would you recommend to someone who might be interested in becoming photographer.

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Michael Clinton: At any age Oh, whether you know.

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Michael Clinton: 30 4050 6070 and then I want to get back to a couple of questions that were asked in the chat.

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Naomi Harris: I would say, of course, follow your heart and do what makes you happy i'm in Grad school now at almost 50 and i'm really glad I held off and and waited till this stage of my life, I think you should always.

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Naomi Harris: Do what makes you happy, however, it makes it is good to have your bills paid, and it is a really difficult occupation, I would say, and.

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Naomi Harris: I mean, I have a very good friend who he's a photographer and guess what he's also an er doctor so.

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Naomi Harris: He makes his living out of being a doctor and then because he's an er doctor he can take big chunks of time off and go do his passion do his photography and he just published a book last year on.

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Naomi Harris: The lone soldiers of Israel, like you know, and he was able to do that because he wasn't like if you're always worried about how to make your pay your bills, I mean if you look historically photographers the best.

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Naomi Harris: ones, you know someone like.

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Naomi Harris: eggleston and you know they all come from money.

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Naomi Harris: Right.

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Michael Clinton: that's right that's great I can attest to that I was the President and publishing director first magazine, so I was a.

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Michael Clinton: You know, a senior magazine executive, and so my photography career as a photographer ran parallel I didn't have to worry about making a living, so I have great admiration for people like you, who make their living in the creative in the creative world.

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Naomi Harris: I knew then what I know now I.

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Naomi Harris: differently, but that's just the there you go.

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Michael Clinton: Okay, a couple of questions it's kind of interesting, this is getting into some sort of the practical.

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Michael Clinton: pieces, one of our questions came from Dr Miriam flying casting off.

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Michael Clinton: And she was asking what did it cost you to stay at the hadn't hall at the time, if you remember, and then someone asked when these individuals passed away who tended to their funerals in their personal effects, I mean what happened so two parter.

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Michael Clinton: Okay surgical.

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Naomi Harris: I can tell you what I hate when I said the hotel and it was um.

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Naomi Harris: The money, I was thinking 1600 dollars a month i'm back in 1999 um because it was like probably $35 a day times 30 or whatever, I mean i'm really bad at math.

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Naomi Harris: But um.

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Naomi Harris: The snowbirds and they would probably have a better rate because they were also staying.

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Naomi Harris: Three four months, five months, some of them and then there were also the people who live there year round, who I know they were not paying 1600 they were probably because also you have to remember in the summertime when it's like you know dad's like completely dead.

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Naomi Harris: yeah he's in these people were keeping them a flow so they've definitely paid last I don't know what they were paying.

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Michael Clinton: got it, how many people were in having hall like when you were there, what would be the total number of people stable.

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Naomi Harris: I trying to remember how many rooms, they have it was three floors it was like the main floor second and a third floor and it shaped like a well I can look at the postcard if I can find it's some it was shaped.

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Naomi Harris: Like a.

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Naomi Harris: model enter the bigger than.

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Naomi Harris: It was.

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Naomi Harris: easier than the pig in the picture, but it wasn't it was probably.

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Naomi Harris: About 100 rooms, I would say, maybe a maybe a slightly larger oh there we go here's a picture of the postcard.

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Naomi Harris: So you can imagine that.

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Michael Clinton: This was right on Miami beach.

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Naomi Harris: No, and I want to point that out, it says facing.

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Naomi Harris: The ocean.

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Naomi Harris: Right it didn't face the ocean by two blocks.

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Michael Clinton: hey.

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Naomi Harris: colin's afternoon that they're located at 1500.

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Naomi Harris: Collins avenue and the hook.

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Naomi Harris: You know shouldn't drive is the ocean so.

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Naomi Harris: basis, not on the.

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Michael Clinton: Little tricky tricky.

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Naomi Harris: I also just want to say that this postcard I found this postcard, this is a reproduction, but I found it on eBay.

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Naomi Harris: And it was from 1943 and it's very hard to read the writing but it's dear says it's from somebody writing to his sister in Connecticut and basically he was saying how he was stationed here during the day before they shipped off to Europe so hadn't hall was used as a barracks.

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Naomi Harris: yesterday.

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Naomi Harris: I mean a lot of Miami beach hotels were used as barracks.

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Naomi Harris: During World War Two.

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Michael Clinton: Right right now that was interesting you know when it was built by any chance.

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Naomi Harris: I don't know when it was built, probably in the 30s I said.

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Michael Clinton: Go and does the structure exists today or was it them all.

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Naomi Harris: Know it's funny you should ask, I have not been there recently I was supposed to go in March 2020 a friend of mine was getting because, having an engagement party and Miami and I was going to go and I was going to make a little video for the book.

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Naomi Harris: um it's now called the actual hotel, which is a.

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Naomi Harris: hetero friendly hotel it's an LGBT Q hotel and they're out of Spain, and they have locations around like all over Europe, and so this is their Miami.

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Naomi Harris: location so gay friendly hotel.

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Michael Clinton: Okay, very, very good and how did going back to the question when when people passed and they were there who handled the arrangements and the personal effects and all of that.

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Naomi Harris: I guess it really would depend on the family members, like some of the people had no children, some of the people would be literally.

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Naomi Harris: Most of them are women so let's call them what they you know I myself am one, a lot of them were spinsters but someone let's say like Sylvia who literally slept with a purse on her bed that had her prepaid.

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Naomi Harris: Commission papers for.

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Naomi Harris: That her job if I wake up a lucky stiff they know what to do with me.

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Naomi Harris: She had.

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Naomi Harris: nieces and nephews like she had like distant family that they came and she also was she knew she the time was coming she gave stuff away she gave.

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Michael Clinton: me.

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Naomi Harris: Some of her thing she gave things away so other sadly I think for a lot of them, it would have ended up in the trash for a lot of them they're they're.

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Michael Clinton: Belonging I really want to take that guy to task, who was the son, who only came once a year for a day shame on him, I really want to take him to task if I knew that guy today, and you know that's really a very that's a sad story and a horrible story i'm sorry that.

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Naomi Harris: That that unfortunately that's what happens to a lot of our elderly.

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Michael Clinton: yeah yeah no I think it's really you know telling and I think your story has mult your essay your photographic se has multiple multiple multiple stories to it because I think it's.

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Michael Clinton: About aging it's about in many instances, there was a poverty layer there was abandoned layers there were.

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Michael Clinton: You know, economic layers they were isolation layers I mean it really is it's also a statement just about how we treat our elderly in our culture, as opposed to how we should especially.

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Michael Clinton: You know, there is a there is a and I know a lot of this subject because of my new book.

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Michael Clinton: There are many, many, many more people living to be 90 and living to be 100, and so this is going to be, you know, a big phenomena in our culture, over the next decades there are 90,000 people in the US that are 100 years old today and by 2016 there will be 590,000 of them.

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Naomi Harris: Well, and this is where we're not doing a good.

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Naomi Harris: service for ourselves included like i'm listening to a book on tape right now, where they're talking about how.

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Naomi Harris: there's no gerontologist like that the.

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Naomi Harris: Right, old people is not sexy people want to be plastic surgeons when they go into Medical School they don't want to look after old people right it's going to come back to bite us.

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Michael Clinton: Well that's changing a lot there's a lot on this topic that's being discussed if anyone's interested Stanford university two weeks ago, just put out a paper on this very this this topic it's called the new map of life that that children who are.

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Michael Clinton: Five years old today who got.

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Michael Clinton: Good prenatal and early nutrition and health care 50% of them will have the possibility of living to be 100, so this is going to be a phenomena of this different form of living longer and aging than we've ever seen, and never had in the history of the world, quite frankly.

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Naomi Harris: The question is, can we want it to be a.

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Michael Clinton: question of vitality and so forth.

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Michael Clinton: So there are a couple more questions, and I think we're going to be at the end of the hour.

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Michael Clinton: i'll ask the first one, and then I think i'll save the one from Joanne for last because I think it's really a great a great question.

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Michael Clinton: First of all, is there an urge to include the people who affected you more in the project, so if you had a connection to them, were they more front and Center.

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Michael Clinton: And, and can you comment in the process of remaining objective when selecting the final images for the book, since you did have personal relationships.

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Naomi Harris: I mean I, and I do this with all my projects, I tend to pick my favorite pictures, not necessarily based on.

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Naomi Harris: Who is in the pictures like sometimes, especially when you work for magazines sometimes like when i'm working on those projects, sometimes i'm like Oh, I really hated this person they drove me.

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Michael Clinton: crazy yeah.

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Naomi Harris: yeah I have to put it in because it's a good picture, so I.

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Naomi Harris: I tried to pick things according to content, but of course there were you know the people that you care most about.

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Michael Clinton: Right.

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spoken like a true photographer.

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Michael Clinton: I love this question from Joe and because it's a great CAP to the hour.

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Michael Clinton: Okay, they only want us to.

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Michael Clinton: take away from her photo.

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Naomi Harris: that's my dog Maggie.

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Naomi Harris: was going to keep bar.

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Michael Clinton: To the question.

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Michael Clinton: While while Naomi is doing that I will tell everyone that, aside from the book.

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Michael Clinton: You can you can get a collection of great photographs in the book and we do she does have that limited edition so tell us what do you want.

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Naomi Harris: Everyone to take, they want to make people happy, I just want people to walk away like, and this is.

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Naomi Harris: In all of the work that I do I try to have a little bit of a sense of humor in the pictures um.

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Naomi Harris: it's not like, am I finding a cure for cancer, am I doing brain surgery, no, but I am hoping to make people happy with the images and give a voice to people and.

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Naomi Harris: Just make a stop, and you know that there's those photographers who go and they photograph in war torn places and that's all important but i'm more interested in this.

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Michael Clinton: Well, I think you definitely gave these wonderful people a voice and a memory and to collection for all of us to sort of.

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Michael Clinton: Think about that moment in time, that was there you capture that beautifully in this in this essay so congratulations on that, I think you know, on some of the pictures It makes you smile and other pictures make you sad but the the importance of emotional response is what really counts.

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Naomi Harris: Life it's bittersweet know and everything is.

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Naomi Harris: What laughter and not everything is sad, we need to have a bit of both right.

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Michael Clinton: So true so well said so i'm going to thank you and i'm going to pass it on the aerie who's going to who's going to wrap us up and thank everyone for joining us so Ari please take it from here.

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Ari Goldstein: Thank you, Michael neal me, it really is a.

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Ari Goldstein: pleasure and an honor for us to show your photos I feel about them as Michael doesn't just want to add that one of the reasons I was first drawn to them when we came across your work is because.

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Ari Goldstein: there's a lot of photos out there of survivors Holocaust survivors in our world, but also people who have dealt with trauma and often like the photos are all about survival hood and they love that your photos are.

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Ari Goldstein: Right and interesting and joyful and what these people have experienced doesn't live at the surface, that they made it and it's part of the story, you.

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Ari Goldstein: tell a different feel to them so i'm really awesome they touched us and, hopefully, our audience this evening, as well remember.

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Michael Clinton: mom or yeah I just want to add that there's a wonderful invitation for you Naomi from from Miriam who I had mentioned mentioned earlier, and she said she would love you to speak at the Miami beach ACC so i'm going to have you know Ari to make that connection.

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Michael Clinton: Happily Okay, and so that's a wonderful and a lot of Thank you great presentations coming through so.

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Michael Clinton: Thank you very much, and you can get a copy by aria some people are asking how do they copy you want to repeat that.

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Ari Goldstein: Order your copy of the hadn't hall at the link in the zoom chat.

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Ari Goldstein: And I should also mention that everything we do at the museum is made possible through donor support, so thank you to those of you are members and donors on on this call if you're not able to consider supporting the museum.

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Ari Goldstein: ordering books their museum shop is one way of supporting us, we also go join us for upcoming programs and events, but it really was a pleasure to have you all with us this evening to explore Naomi Harris is work.

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Naomi Harris: Thank you very much.

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Naomi Harris: My website, you can find me there Naomi harris.com.

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Michael Clinton: that's easy to remember.

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Naomi Harris: Maggie and I both Thank you.

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Michael Clinton: Thanks everyone thanks Maggie thanks Ari and thanks everyone for joining us tonight.

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Naomi Harris: Thank you