The Boy Who Drew Auschwitz: Thomas Geve

This program’s original recording transcript is below. This transcription was created automatically during a live program so may contain inaccurate transcriptions of some words.

Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Hi everyone, my name is Sydney Yaeger and i'm the public programs coordinator at the Museum of Jewish heritage, a living memorial to the Holocaust.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Now, in its 24th year the museum is committed to the crucial mission of educating our diverse community about Jewish life and heritage, before, during and after the Holocaust.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): As part of that mission our programs are meant to illuminate the stories of survivors broader histories of hate and anti semitism through time and stories of resistance against injustice.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Today, we will be discussing the book the boy who drew Auschwitz a powerful true story of hope and survival.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): The boy who drew outfits tells the story of Thomas give a 92 year old Holocaust survivor from Germany in June 1943 13 year old Thomas and his mother were deported to Auschwitz Birkenau separated upon arrival, he was left to fend for himself in the men's camp of Auschwitz one.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): During 22 harsh months in Auschwitz gross frozen and involved Thomas to experience the worst of Nazi cruelty, but he never gave up the will to live.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Immediately after liberation Thomas created more than 80 drawings documenting life around him.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): rendered and simple yet poignant detail the drawings reflect day to day life and the camps, at the same time as they reveal to share the shared humanity between Thomas and the other prisoners.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): we're honored to be joined by Thomas his daughter you thought con near and journalist Charlie angle field who wrote the book with Thomas.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Throughout today's program please feel free to put questions in the zoom Q amp a chat and we will get to as many as we can, at the end of the hour Thank you so much for joining us and i'm now going to pass things over to you.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: hi.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: hi everyone very.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: exciting to be here and thank you for joining us.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: i'm sorry that Thomas is not with us physically, but he will join us through his recordings talking about his testimony so he would be kind of participating with us, and I think we just start, and we have some time in the end to.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: To speak a little bit more Okay, so I do the share.

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Oh sorry.

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Okay.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Can you see now one the front page.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Yes, okay.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Okay, so um and.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: This is Thomas testimony the boy do i'll show it's.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: A testimony of.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: unique life story through.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The time of Second World War.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And I just say the Thomas is a synonym to my father chose after the war, to allow him to leave on his life i'll talk a little bit more about that.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: But Thomas was born in shuttin in those times with Germany later now nowadays is Poland for us to be Germany first boy firstborn boy to his parents betta and Eric you can see them here, I hope you can see my the arrow and.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Eric was a doctor and he was also grant grant son of a doctor that his father was also a doctor and he was born.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: 1929 end of 1921 October actually 1929.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Life started as happy regular happy life boy young boy.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Nice happy childhood busy with the family.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: living in Germany as a Jew, and that this age of course didn't mean much but later on life started on those years, started to change dramatically to all Jewish citizens of Germany.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: In 1933 one of the change it after the, of course, the rise of Nazi regime lots of new rules came in restrictions and one of them.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The family wasn't sure chain, as I mentioned, but because of the changes and Thomas father's a doctor could not work anymore, and the public places and they had to move back to his hometown which was boynton Boyden was on the border of Poland.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And every every detail i'm saying about Thomas childhood now would be kind of significant to His story later, so he spent a few years in boynton.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: growing up happy child.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Very connected to nature that also will play a role later in his life connected to his arm through an auntie Emma and they teach and quite a lot about life.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: boy, you really as you see, on top here has a lot of very good technical.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: sense, he loves.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: machines and he's fascinated with more than more than more than life.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: That he started to very curious about life.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: and on those years, as I said, life start to change more dramatically as Jews, he started his first year we see him here and boys, in the first year day of school very typical.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: thing that they had those cones of candies with his mother here, we seem like a happy naughty boy are pulling it, we found that in this photo putting it year of his friend.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: He didn't get to go many years to school, but that was a very exciting years of beginning of.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: school years 1938 very huge change and one of the most dramatic scene was in November 1938 Christina night of the broken glasses.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: were many Jews that were kind of optimistic that things can go worse and the probably people kind of wake up on time and stop this craziness of Nazism that didn't happen and 1938 decrease enough prove them that they don't have any future in Germany, they must save their lives.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Thomas father, being a doctor and the men were at risk, more than others, so.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: He tried really to pull the family out to find a place to immigrate to to it's very hard in those years to immigrate.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: They didn't manage to do that as a family, but his father managed to get a certificate to get into England, as a doctor and a 1939.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The family splitting Thomas father is moving to England and the plan was that he will draw his Thomas and his mother as soon as possible, later, but he lives in in a summer of 69 in September war war two is breaking out and the borders are shut and Thomas and his mother are.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Left to stay in Berlin.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And life in Berlin is getting more and more.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: dangerous and.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Challenging being a Jew, and more and more Jews are moving out with disappearing or send out to other to the east, Thomas.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: In the schools with the Jewish schools are locked and closed there's an option, the Jewish community gives an option to the youngsters to choose some Community work and tell us is choosing to work in a cemetery is a Jewish cemetery and vibrancy.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The quite a lot of teenagers in the beginning, and they mainly.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Were gardening and helping around he was just 12 then so he can help with boot burying people, but he helped around and where, as time went forward more and more of those young people disappeared moved out or going to send also the the grown ups were lesson, so the of them.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: There was one time that him and his mother were caught and you know that starts to collect the Jews and send them to the east, and they were called as well.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: But Thomas was.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: kind of bravely finding a solution, and he he went and offered him self to work in the cemetery he said it people who had jobs that there were.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: needed somewhere they had more.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: kind of.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: option to stay in it with more in Berlin, so he persuaded the official people that he can help he could work in the cemetery and his mother was working in different works in all sorts of.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: factories and also needed work, so he persuaded them that they let them go, so they went back to Berlin out to to be free in Berlin.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Under restrictions, of course, but for almost almost another year, so it was by June 43 that time became so hard, I mean they could not support themselves anymore cannot hide anymore.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: When more and more tough to stay there as Jews and dangerous as well, so they decided to.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Hand themselves to the authorities, hoping that the move to the East would be they knew that people were there to work, so how.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: How harder, it could be, there were used to hard work and they really hope that moving to the east, would be a better solution for that, so it was June 43 when Thomas and his mother was.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Put in the.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: In Berlin.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The detention camp in Gloucester humble this word world his former school was in the cemetery was around there, and there was sent with one of the last transport transport from Berlin number 39.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: To the feast as Father knew but arriving to the gates of Auschwitz be okay now.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: So the time is June 43 and.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Thomas is arriving to Auschwitz here, we see the journey from now on, the next two years, we will see a story through his drawings and as it was mentioned in the beginning.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: I will briefly go through the times within those next 22 months Thomas was spent 19 months in Auschwitz.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: outfits one men camp Auschwitz one.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And then he moved do the math of the death March and sent to go frozen for a short while, and then again to be humbled is liberated in April 45 when booth and vote is liberated and stay there for another two months to recover and in that time that's where he he's doing.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The drawings we're going to see now on top of postcards left on the SS quarters, with some colors he got from.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: inmates and soldiers American soldiers and he draws.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: A set of over at joins kind of miniature joins.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Actually, a combination of sketch sketches lists lyrics of songs and mainly scenarios of life, Thomas is choosing.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: To describe life as he experienced and his friends experience in Camp his main motivation was to.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: show his father, hopefully his parents after the war, what he's been through and his friends have been through that wasn't motivation to do this, joining, so now we didn't we go into Thomas word of joints.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Here we see the gates of.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: have broken out actually when Thomas arrived in June 43 arrival was outside of the gates.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Later, it was the old ramp later train started to go inwards inside the camp.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: But that was like out in the fields, and we can see that's the real games nowadays, and we can see.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: How i'm loyal Thomas was for the troops for reality around him the combination of his technical skills he's observed observance to details his curiosity his understanding by now for so many years, living in Berlin, mostly on his own like lots of strict wisdom, he collected on those years.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: being used to be around Nazis soldiers that was very kind of helpful when he arrived to Auschwitz to this new unknown world.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: So we can see that.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The details was very vivid in his mind when you do those drawings.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: This is the first scene at the driver and we can hear now I hope you can hear, let me know if you don't hear that, but you will hear Thomas explaining she thinks about this joins and you can follow the arrow I will show the parties he's talking about.

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yeah the rival, that is the most historic picture I could ever imagine how people arrived and sorted out who is being killed the same date.

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Children and invalids in the middle, as you see women for work on the top in the middle of women and invalids and on the bottom man sorted out by assessment as arrived.

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And, of course, all the luggage, which you brought along as you see, historically, are left in the wagons and they never saw them again this picture was recognized and i'm very proud of it at the Auschwitz museum and.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: yeah the rival that i'm sorry.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Okay, I think it's a bit cut, for some reason, the text but i'm Thomas has just started to say that the in nowadays in the museum the Jewish.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The Jewish block.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: You can see this drawing.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: script on the walls in the memorial where they did or join some of children that were found after the war and Thomas joining is there as well.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Thomas call this joining the saddest scenario of more than life, and I think he's quite right.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: This drawing Thomas shows us the process of becoming a prisoner Here we see a citizen coming with the hat and stick in the bed with this colored clothing a citizen.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: We know that over around 1.6 million people arrived to Auschwitz, and about 4407 of them more or less where.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: we're registered to work or not we're not killing a driver and whoever we're kind of lucky to be there to be alive in the beginning, they went through this process of becoming a prisoner so first first time first block or station.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: clothes are taken off later to be sent back to Germany.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: To help the citizen, they were just sent all those clothes, shoes.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: were sent back to Germany.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: yeah people are shaved both for all pair around your body hair.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: We can say, maybe this this the motivation behind that was mainly for.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: sanitation.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: But we also know that you know, taking off your hair and losing your hair had hair also had the meaning of really taking off your dignity and your abilities and your your feeling of self in a way, and that was part of the program of kind of illuminating people's identity.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Here we see there's this this infection.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And then the showers and receiving uniform.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And then the tattooing only people who were on the people who were selected to work got those two tools.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And then registration was when all the the Germans, the Nazis were really restrict was registration everything's very set.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: later when they left alfred's he burned all those documents, but in the beginning, everything was really documented and now you out with that process becoming a prisoner now Thomas went through this process and there's two points.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Three things are happening that point that just to tell you a little stories, of course, reading the book and we'll explore lots of what happened in those hours, but one thing as he's armed is to to Thomas is looking at the digits of the number he got his number was one to 703.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Being a technical guy he immediately kind of connected the digits and he gets to the number of 13 they add up to be 13 and he wonders well, whether that be good luck.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And another point that the guy who did this to to the we're not allowed all the prison all this process with them by prisoners is was.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The SS guy was just watching everything but the prisoner did everything there was not much direct connection between the SS officers and the prisoners, but they were not allowed to talk to them that was part of the horrified.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: process that no speaking, but at that point that the tourists was quite young person and he was looking at the Thomas and he kind of blessed him to say good luck to you.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And that was very unusual thing to do, and gave lots of strength to tell us at that point, Thomas start to figure out the only men around in older men and he's just young being 13 he was just 13.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And he noticed that so he's 40 would be really brave and save himself, so he went to one of the German officers so.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: He kind of pulled himself up and very strictly said, you know, excuse me, Sir, but I think you make a mistake here i'm just boy i'm not supposed to be here with the men, please send me where are the camp of the Board went where the boys are.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And that officer looked at him and says.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Go back where we came from, and one day, you will be thankful I didn't do that.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: It took about 24 hours later, to understand.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The real truth about the camp where where he arrived to and 24 hours later, Thomas understand there's no camp for children, no camp for elderly and all counter disabled people and he is kind of lucky to be with men at that point.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Here we see some of Thomas joins our lists, he was listening things some from his memory and Sam from documents that were found later on in the asus COM offices.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Here we see a list of cattle alfred's camps, the first one, so I think hope you don't see.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The first one is Auschwitz one later it was called i'll show you later on it, it was changed to Auschwitz one, two and three, but there's Thomas arrival it's Auschwitz that's the men camps about 18,000 men.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Birkenau Buena and other satellite camps that actually after a year later they'll all one big complex of Auschwitz and spider's web it's impression that one of the prisoners will explain them all that.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: You gave that presence by the.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Self Thomas joins a maps very, very accurate map some from his memory some from documents and some from help from people who were in those camps, so he was CMO happy Juba of Auschwitz, one that bought blocks and everything and the next.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: postcard was just an explanation of the drawing.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: On arrival to Africa one.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Men camp out at one first month is quarantine and that time he connect with other three as a youngsters, all of them.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: All of them over 15 but young compared to the others and German from Berlin as well, and those for the quarters Quartet.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The bond together and they set upon to help each other all the way through, and together they decide that they want to ask to be part of a very unique project for the youth it's called the bricklaying school.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And this is a brick thing school draw they told us, and that was a very special project meant to help the youngsters give them a profession to help.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Building.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And that was the idea was came from another prisoner many years before in other camps, but after he had one too So here we can hear Thomas talking about.

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yeah that's a bricklaying school, and that was an invention, there were about 200 children were taught to to lay bricks and that saved their lives because they were of shield shelter that easier work and that.

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I was received there, I was a third youngest at that time, most of the other boys were seasoned Russians.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: boys from all over Europe out were collected together and Thomas described in his testimony the difference between the towel time on life to the youth was unique and different from the grown ups.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: In some metal, it was the same Summit was very different, but the testimony is very focusing about what happened to the youth and how they live together, I went through all that.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: horrible horrible life together, and this is makes this testimony very unique to the younger generation because it's focused in the eyes of a teenager.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Talking about other teenagers from around the world how they coped in different ways of coping as well as grown ups yeah that's a brick lane schooling Thomas being a bricklayer yeah that's.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Being a bricklayer that's a brick allowed wiggling school, and that was a that's a brick link scoops we allowed him.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: To go around here, he draws like the will of work wheel of life and how the work as bricklayers different things they did as bricklayers now being a bricklayer was a unique job because most prisoners went to one specific job and they did that most of their time.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: By the way, the life expectancy of life of a prisoner was about three to six months that's it and Thomas were there for much longer 22 months is very long for prisoner.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And so, he was there for a long time to see lots of things, but being a bricklayer allow him to move around, sometimes out of the camp sometimes the inside the camp meeting in different group work.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Allowing to meet different various people also civilian sometimes so get that gave his broad.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Information and that another thing that makes this testimony you need to because he saw a lot of things he experienced a lot of things and places and people.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And all that is describing his testimony Here we see a daily routine daily life as a worker, we talked over the wake up at six o'clock and.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: They worked at six o'clock six o'clock in the morning to six o'clock in the evening was one hour break for kind of lunch and then settling or two lights off and nighttime and 11 hours harbor Labor work day.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Another list we see here of different working groups that they weren't outreach one Thomas was participating few of them as smaller the group was there was a bit better because usually just have.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Less people and less guarding of the SS and more prisoners guarding, which was a bit better.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Here we see the hierarchy of prisoners, as I said in Auschwitz, most of daily life was.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: handled by prisoners in hierarchy different couples couples block elders and so on, and the esca SS got one more outside.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Jews were not allowed to an illustrious one to those works at the maximum and you could be was working commander.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Here is with the roll call and I let him speak here as well.

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And this is very warm to my heart, because it shows all my comrades fellow prisoners lined up at night, why, if somebody was missing, we had to stand for hours to they found out he may have.

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fallen asleep, he may or may have died somewhere or we don't know so we had to stand there.

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And, of course, people say you see the block elder in blue yes.

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And then you see the SS man and people say yes, I drew them big because I was afraid of the SS I was afraid some assessment were smaller I was taller than some of the assessment anyhow, so I wanted to show his equipment his boots.

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Is revolvers stickers CAP, and all this, I wanted to show how it was the camp god's is as god's.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Here we see the vermin that different disease ahead of the government sorry there's another drawing we don't see here, but by the diseases, but the firm itself was a very.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: problematic things in such a tight place so many people and very tight place that was very dangerous to get those.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Here we see a really list Thomas, as we said very technical guy he list, what exactly exactly what they eat here, he compare the live in Auschwitz, and then book in.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: A daily.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: daily food, the amount of food ration the innovations in each day exactly what they eat will see.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: We have one liter of soup about 30 350 grams of bread analysis it's less even less in brooklyn bird later.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: A little bit of monitoring and some days they get a little bit of jam twice a week a little bit of of of sausage.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And the amount, as mentioned before, was not people were not expected to live long on that amount, and of course to survive, they had to organize a little bit more food.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Here we see the delivery food, it was cooking for so many people was, of course, they could not provide real good food and when we say soup, it was mainly water.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: was sometimes a bit of vegetables in it, and sometimes even things like shoes and seeing their or not edible in normal life but anything to put some kind of nutrition was useful and in winter times people used to eat the snow and that was quite nutritious as well.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Here we see how people had to organize extra food that was really a main thing to survive anything from peers of.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Appeals of vegetables found in the garbage or rotten cabbage or food for the holes or rotten food anything anything would be good enough to attrition little bit more than this, the little food they had.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: He was in a selection that Tom speak here.

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This is the most dangerous situation twice a year they had to select to.

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That didn't matter there, whether we are Jewish keeps the Russian or Christian German or Polish Christian didn't matter what orange and you were you had to run naked.

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And now it's very interesting historical if you had any wounds on the curb or from working with bricks and maybe wounds or any.

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exams or any other of your limbs, or you didn't walk walk around and even what is historically important people don't know that even if you wore glasses on your head, you were sorted out.

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To to be killed and here, as you see, these people don't walk home they run home because afraid the assessment may open the door and says you little guy come back again how old, are you they could do that because that's a very dangerous situation, I went through about three of these situations.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Okay i've partnered with mostly after project i'll kind of go quickly through the rest, so we can have, I see the time here, so I go briefly through a few more drawings and let Thomas speak about you more so we set the time So here we see dangerous main dangerous.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Life in the camp.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: see that that's the most the strongest color Thomas us to those things that a prisoner has to be very careful about so we see the crematorium, of course, the illnesses and diseases disease punishment and the bunker.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: and

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: here just to show Thomas testimony is he says i'm like I was like a journalist going around the cam describing all life.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Not not much of his personal experience, but around him so Thomas mentioned a lot of different fears prisoners here we'll see drawing.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: mentioning the gypsies as a lot about Thomas was very friendly with the gypsies he talks a lot about them describe a lot about their expenses and cam the Jehovah witness.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: and others mentioning prisoners from around Europe not only Jews in Auschwitz one, the percentage of Jews was very small actually sometimes less than 20% even sometimes less than 10% us.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Of course, other campuses with percentage was different but Jews were many cute as arrival at arrival.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Thomas mentioned all the different presenters around him, he was see another kind of joins some of his drawings and lyrics of songs that prisoners used to sing now the world of music is music was very significant to Thomas.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: As as encouraging as even through opposing sometimes reminding them of normality of life and rising their spirits up and others and lots of that in the story as well.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The ABC just some ABC of life in what was the main words that accompany life in the camp and we see here that's a Thomas say oh I don't like this drone is very child is, but we do see Thomas was a boy, he was very young, and that was his way to show his last through the alphabet of life.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And this is also very mum mum more memorable dave's not the exodus of the Jews, of course, the percentage of choosing the camp, which I was kept number one and our.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: lesson template percent sometimes even 2% most other people now you're the exodus out of Auschwitz, and you see.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: everybody's carrying something and then people ask with schools i've prayed for 20 years i've been moving about the schools or over you that.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Who was me I didn't think about this meat, and of course it's a little button on the bottom who squat no luggage and know blankets tied to that is me supposed to be.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Then very historically important also for me on the bottom, you see a real fire and it looks real.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And a block elder supervising it the end and evenings estimate stands by to see that all the documents of Auschwitz are being burned well I have.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: drawn everything my things I alive and kicking everywhere, so that there was no burning the documents didn't happen here we get provisions for the long exodus, all the way to move on.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Okay, our from shorter this time I will describe briefly here, this is a scenario from the death March.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: march in from Auschwitz to Lazlo the train station and then driven by train, so we see on top here the train open wagon.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: We talking about January in Poland, freezing cold, many people that that part of just from the freezing and by March, we can see amazing scenarios of people hardly dragging themselves through the snow, with no.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Good shoes Thomas himself had two different shoes not fitting issues shoe size but they had to go through that and even though there were still helping each other, carrying each other.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And even Thomas describe as young as he was as weak as he was there was constantly people leaning and on his shoulders and he helped people around to do this very dangerous much the year the.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: marching through the train to first station was gross rosen can very dangerous camp, he was just for shorter term few weeks and then again there were evacuated as the Germans was.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: moving backwards to Germany, the prisoners were evacuated to the east sorry to the West arriving to book and buy that book and white count was already in Germany.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And it was different it was a camp was established in 37 or lots of political prisoners, they actually establish a very developed underground.

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and

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: One of the things that it was a camp police very unique to go hog wild and that was very helpful they helped each other more.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The garden they took care of prisoners, and especially the young one so young, what would taken care of very specially by the other prisoners and Thomas was saved few times by the underground all those stories of course in his testimony.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: I let him speak for the liberation scenario.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And the other famous scene historic scenes liberation of portland wild and there are six different versions of the liberation and only one is true.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The moment the three American tanks on the left with the American flag very historically drawn.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: They actually came on this side of the camp that's the main entrance of the camp, there was a revolt and we had 200 people with arms and restore the.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: camper we drove the camp cars and my own theory of the liberation is completely different to official ones we had as you see, on top, we had captured one machine gun, and that was it.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: For one year it was hidden under the floor, and when we started shooting with a machine gun I reckon that the gods thought the Americans are shooting inside the never figured out the.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: prisons have a machine gun, so they thought the Americans have arrived inside the camp and most of them flat, that was a real.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: story of the liberation, as you see, these men, here it is man with his arms up.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And another and also arms up he tried to hide himself, but putting blue prisoners of fluid, they said take off your jacket, and they is so uniform.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And some of it only had whips they didn't have all rifles and, as you see very accurately the rifle i'm very proud of you see the rifle is ain't exactly on to the man and he's shaking the rifle it's a very historic picture of the celebration of.

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Okay.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Okay, so as we hear that was celebrated by.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: By the prisoners underground and prisoners and just while short while, after the American soldiers arrived in.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: shocked by what they see they were filming everything afterwards and the prisoner was showing them around later also civilians were brought in just to see the horrors of what happened in their.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: trauma speak a bit more about the American friend, unfortunately we don't have time to hear the whole.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Testimony but.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: He talks about the American arrival, of course, that was very.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: amazing time being free again, for the first time, the media.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And the roll call at Thomas speak here, I think.

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And then, on the first of May, the big march past.

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And I was with a German, there was a German column executive submit some columns are very big and nations German called.

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I held up a post as much past the off here that he's got the flags of Britain and States and Russia was standing on adwords read on a judgment on it, we marched past.

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And then the camera was turned on me, and that was something very, very moving these photos got lost the camera all these films loss, but I was marching they're very proud first of May.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: yeah So this was a scene of victory.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: That is also there are official films of that scenario and tell us with there.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: was one of the flags.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: It took Thomas two months to recover here, we will see Thomas after liberation or before liberation by the underground put them in blocks the teenagers in one block 66.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: he sees Thomas is not in this photo but we see other inmates about his age, so he was very one of these current his boys more or less he couldn't walk that stage is he was too weak and to.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: wounded in his in his leg, so you can walk the only thing he could do was sitting is barrick.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: He was moved to about 29 was German speakers and there, he was with other underground members that collected, one of them was Oregon Cohen, a very famous historian.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And with, together with the other underground they collected information from the SS officers and all that information was piled in one single table in the block.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And that allowed Thomas first of all to be exposed to lots of information and also he sat on the same table, and he did those drawings for two months April to June.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: He was doing those drawings I go very briefly, so what happened after liberation, because it time is kind of finishing soon and.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Thomas has there was a project yeah That was a big question what to do with all the survivors, most of them did not have were to go back to some of the youngest.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: we've not had found with orphans by that point, no families, no place to go back to, and it was a big question around Europe what to do with those youngsters and Thomas was choosing to.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: join a project from Switzerland, there were about 400 boys and girls was sent to Switzerland for recovery and Thomas is one of them, he received trains of the teenagers just before being sent.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: To almost arrive to Switzerland.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: First.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: yeah he arrived to Ryan for them for a quarantine where he gets really.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Ill again and his hospitalized for a while, after that he's moved to suka back to spot hundred and a bit of more than hundred and the boys and girls, and this is where Thomas story and charlie's in guilford story connects and few minutes woman's we're here, Charlie.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: But this is a connection so good about how those two stories and together 74 years later, but here we see the boys of Zuckerberg and here we see to us is a second on top here on the right, Thomas is 15 liberation and he's in Switzerland and by his 16th birthday.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: In October 45 the Red Cross help Thomas and his father find each other at that point, I know they don't know what's going on what's happened with his mother, but they find each other and the 19th of November 45 thomas's flight.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: is joining his father in London in England and he becomes an English citizen.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And at that point they understand that his mother did not survive the camps.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Thomas join his father that his father Eric after those long years of separation, the unite Thomas is a finishing his studies, he becomes an income building engineer.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: From the bricklaying school in Auschwitz he become being an engineer, and then in the age of 20 surprise of his life.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: His father's remarried and Thomas becomes an older brother to his younger sister Judith and at that point he made a huge decision decision, and he decided to immigrate to Israel and be part of building the Jewish state and as an engineer he comes to Israel 9050.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: His start to work in the Jewish agency helps to build Israel building whole houses and buildings all around Israel a very, very young stayed at that age at that stage, he joined the army as an officer and engineering officer and the engineering unit.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Fighting all the wars of Israel and getting married having three children nine well children and urine bit of ago these first great great granddaughter.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And so, become a great grandfather and his grandfather and father very pro one and the brother here the sister duties.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: At.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The Thomas story was published in 58 for the first time as a pocketbook self and each one was a time his life change because there was a unit you.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: A gathering of survivors he found one of his friends on the cam and that point he decided to be an active witness he republished his testimony at.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: five and seven again and then was an album of his books are still available in both involved in a film about his love his doctor in the morning.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: documentary about his story very unique one, and that is started to be an active witness for over 20 years you went around Europe talking to audiences.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And just later on that 1916 was the last journey and then he he decided not to travel anymore, but he got to speak to audiences in his reading admission nowadays in zoom.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And here, where the story connected Charlie Charlie will let you speak in a moment.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Charlie.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: heard of a story, and he thought i'd been so many years since the testing one it was out and thanks to his enthusiasm and and will Thomas stories out again to the world in the new version in the new.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: edition last year in the UK, for the first time in summer in the US.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And now, this last January 2 edition.

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In.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: In England again already translated to various languages.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: and getting to new audiences, which we are very happy to see and.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: I just mentioned here, if anyone wants to connect arms asking questions.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: we're happy to do that that's his email Thomas gene.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Gene and.com and the website is rebuild now so it's going to be renewed soon, but it's not on zoom.com last words Thomas fee, and then we see you Charlie Thank you for listening.

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People ask me if i'm happy about my new book.

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Well there's nothing happy about the past, but it is good that the 40 prisoners who helped me to survive two years of concentration camps all become alive again all over the world.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Thank you so much, Charlie your turn.

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Charlie Inglefield: Thank you very much, that was a wonderful presentation and I just wanted to say a very quick Thank you to Sydney and the team at the Museum of Jewish heritage in New York.

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Charlie Inglefield: for giving us this opportunity to talk today to talk about the book we're very grateful and very honored i'm just going to spend a few minutes, really.

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Charlie Inglefield: Talking about the book behind the book The actual process of putting a book like this together, and I guess I split it into three parts, the first part is how did the book come about.

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Charlie Inglefield: The second part is the strategy, the direction of the book and three I guess is the learnings and the objectives of what we hope the reader takes from reading a book like this, so to get things started.

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Charlie Inglefield: The book really came about through the most random of circumstances my family and I we lived in zoo little expert town outside of Zurich.

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Charlie Inglefield: In March 2019 I had a friend of mine natalie Albrecht to.

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Charlie Inglefield: told me about an exhibition that was taking place at the burgh museum and zoo called the children of book involved in one of the photos.

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Charlie Inglefield: That showed on one of our last slides, I think it was the top left hand corner was actually the the main photograph on on the.

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Charlie Inglefield: On the flyer and natalie handed me this flyer is where I first saw the name Thomas jeev and, like most of us do when something Piques our interest we go on to google.com we put the name in.

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Charlie Inglefield: I put thomas's name in and that's when I first saw some of his amazing drawings, which really hit me the simplicity of the powerful images that he drew.

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Charlie Inglefield: And I also saw Thomas chief calm and I wrote an email to Thomas g.com very, very soon afterwards.

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Charlie Inglefield: And yeah fat and I think we're We talked very, very soon afterwards, and I was like a sponge To be honest, in other words, I just sort of listened and was fascinated about thomas's life, not just his life as a boy, and not just his experiences about the Holocaust, but his life after.

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Charlie Inglefield: All of those horrendous events took place and the effort and I talked about the fact that two of his books obviously came out one was in 1958 youth and changes here fat mentioned also guns and barbed wire 1987.

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Charlie Inglefield: So it's been a been a long time since audiences, we read read his experiences, and I think that was what really inspired me and your fat to say well let's bring it to today's audiences.

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Charlie Inglefield: I was on a plane to Israel in July 2019 I spent a wonderful week with your fat with her family, as well as with Thomas, it was quite daunting and I should add, in here that.

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Charlie Inglefield: At the time I wasn't an author i'm surfing on an expert i'm not a historian i'm not Jewish either I was just a fan of.

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Charlie Inglefield: thomas's story, I felt inspired reading his second book guns and barbed wire and your fat and I basically said well let's go for it let's see whether we can take it to today's audiences.

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Charlie Inglefield: So that that, in a nutshell, was the sort of first stage to this, you know the book behind the book and the second was obviously, how do we go about this, the strategy, the direction on putting a book together like this.

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Charlie Inglefield: And, to be perfectly honest, as simplistic as it sounds, it was to actually have a direction, and I was incredibly lucky in the fact that we had the content, the content from guns and barbed wire was was an amazing story to read, we had a selection thomas's drawings as well.

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Charlie Inglefield: So it was really about.

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Charlie Inglefield: Updating thomas's testimony as part of this third edition, as the book, we know now, which is the boy who drew outfits.

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Charlie Inglefield: And I guess from, from my perspective, one of the key was was to provide a flow to the reader and allow the reader to digest to hopefully discover.

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Charlie Inglefield: To take a bit of a pause as well, because there are so many extraordinary stories and events that Thomas goes through, and therefore one of the first points to to the strategy was to provide a few more chapters, just to allow the reader to have that flow.

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Charlie Inglefield: The second.

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Charlie Inglefield: Key a My guess was to provide more references more footnotes so both visual as well as text references and footnotes because Thomas mentions.

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Charlie Inglefield: You know, places names people he was acquaintances with dates as well just to hopefully help the reader along as they as they read the story, and I would also add, in that we wanted to add in some photographs as well because, particularly when book involved was liberated.

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Charlie Inglefield: Hopefully, it was a way for the reader to obviously go through thomas's story, but have a few reference points as well, and some of the photographs was.

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Charlie Inglefield: were put in for that for that point.

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Charlie Inglefield: So I guess I finish it in terms of the learnings and objectives, and I look at this from a personal perspective as well.

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Charlie Inglefield: You know, here we are nearly three years on, and I still get Shivers listening to thomas's voice I hope your faith and Thomas don't mind me saying this, but you know, Thomas is amount of detail, he doesn't suffer fools gladly.

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Charlie Inglefield: It was quite a daunting experience working with with Thomas right at the beginning, but he made me feel very much at ease.

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Charlie Inglefield: And it was obviously a huge huge privilege I don't think you're fat and I stopped learning to be perfectly honest, when we do talk that there seems to be new bits of information coming to light.

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Charlie Inglefield: One of the key learnings I take was towards the beginning of the process of putting this book together.

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Charlie Inglefield: Thomas often talked about creatures wild animals in terms of describing or descriptions expressions and meanings and.

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Charlie Inglefield: At the beginning, I didn't really understand what these descriptions meant, and therefore I thought well if it doesn't make a huge amount of sense to me, should we include it.

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Charlie Inglefield: Whereas actually learning through the process and learning more about Thomas and what he went through if you change descriptions, or if you'd changes meanings.

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Charlie Inglefield: you're changing what he wants to describe at the time as a boy and and that goes absolutely against you know what we should be learning from a survivor like Thomas, so there are so many learnings I could mention, but I will only only mentioned that one.

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Charlie Inglefield: The objective behind the book look what what I hope and I know what the family hopes is whilst we have survivors like Thomas with us.

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Charlie Inglefield: They remain the last human link to this infamous piece of history, this period of history and I guess the aim behind doing this update updated.

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Charlie Inglefield: version of thomas's testimony is to ensure all generations it's not just future generations is all generations.

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Charlie Inglefield: That this event never happens again and we have thomas's voice and thomas's experiences to hopefully help in that process, and I say this rather, sadly, because obviously what the tragic events happening in Ukraine at the moment.

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Charlie Inglefield: So I hope that just gives you a little bit about the book behind the book The process of putting a book like this together, and thank you very much for listening in.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Thank you so much, Charlie and you thought and.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Before we move into audience Q.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): amp a and I had the opportunity to talk to Thomas with he thought and I recorded a couple or you thought.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Rather recorded a few of his answers so i'm only going to play two right now, before we move into sort of the live Q amp a but.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): I think this will also answer some of the questions that have been coming through throughout the program so this first slide is really about what happened to Thomas his friends, he fought mentioned that he had made.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): You know uh he was with a group of other children in the camp, so I asked him what happened.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Oh.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Can you hear that.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): nope okay.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): hold on I think I forgot to share my sound.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): There we go okay.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): let's try that again.

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He went to live in New York.

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Live I don't know if he's still alive, but he went to live in New York.

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who went to live in Australia and there's little bear went back to Belgium.

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and

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Three of them and run to the top.

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He contacted his wife and unfortunately died in the House of camp, just before the race.

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And now, where did I get the information, not for my parents.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): My parents, was it was my grandmother, so I read the newspapers and also.

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that's right.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): So then, this next question that i'm going to share is um you know I had asked Thomas a little bit about we kind of got into the history of the book.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): from his perspective and he also kind of talked about how the drawings were stored, which is another question that was coming through throughout the program So here we go excellent pictures are true for my father need to inform them.

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Charlie Inglefield: That was where the pictures came in and, of course, is technically speaking, they couldn't be published, for many, many years because, as I said, the publishers in London for.

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Your sonny boy is not a picasa we cannot create those pictures, you know, have the money it costs for for many years in Europe, he couldn't predict color picture, so I had to write it down, and of course the first book.

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came out what picture shows, and I use the pictures to write the book, yes, and of course of several the pair present version of the book is already human version number six.

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To finish worse.

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book has been alive all the time.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Okay, so now i'm going to move into some of the questions that you have asked to and Charlie so you thought how old were you when you first learned about these drawings and about what had happened to Thomas.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Thomas testimony was originally written in English, and when we were younger he did not talk about when he separated his his.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: personal life to his from present life from from past life so he did not speak about his testimony there was a book and when you have the book, but I, my English was not good enough to read such a book, when I was younger and only when I was 21 I took the book with the dictionary.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Word the word and struggled to go to read through it, but more or less got the story, but there's Charlie mentioned up to this day, when I read the testimony every time I come to new information so later on just just.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: The last decade, I became more as a partner to my father, it was willing to share his testimony with me and I came, you know his.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Is my role now to carry the testimony one seat he already wants to retire, and so I can I keep on studying and and interviewing him about things and keep on.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: getting more information so it's kind of alive.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: testimonies keep on changing and more and more information comes up, so I guess also the books would with yours, we we hope to add more and more information, as we gather it as well.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Thank you, and I think this is a question for both Charlie any five, but do you think that this is a book that is appropriate for students to read it, and do you hope that this is something that will be used in schools, going forward.

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Charlie Inglefield: yeah i'm happy to take the first part to this yeah it's a good question.

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Charlie Inglefield: i've been asked this question a number of times over the last few weeks, look through from my personal perspective, I feel this book is probably appropriate from the ages of 13 and above.

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Charlie Inglefield: I think.

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Charlie Inglefield: children younger than that it's still quite a while it's a very powerful book, it is traumatic in some ways.

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Charlie Inglefield: and obviously when you're talking about maturity and the right time to listen and learn from this kind of event, then, from a personal perspective voting 13 and above.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: yeah and I would add that, as a group, every word of Charlie and I will add that this testimony.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: into all ages, I mean from teenagers and above and it's unique because of the teenagers I so teenagers can relate to this story.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And also, it brings up out very much of the difference, how the teenagers related to what's going on around them not just live in Camp also before and after.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: and Thomas lots of conversation with with his inmates, and so you can see different way of thinking and the different laps way of thinking and the teenagers.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And also because of the joints, of course, that makes it more you know the language of the drawings relate to any age, I did testimony for very young ages just using certain like the food and the daily life, comparing to the nowadays live ABC, for instance.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Not educated, it was recommended by Ministry of Education in some countries in Europe already and it's just getting to know and again, so we hope that we do aim for education, of course.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: educating the young generation makes difference because it affect their lives, nowadays, and the meaningful.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: messages of this testimony it's not just about the past is very relevant to nowadays it's not just about the Holocaust about.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Human beings about human relations about coping with trauma coping with events in your life so that's very relevant values to nowadays, so we hope to into the younger generation is, of course, yes.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): i'm sorry no we're a bit over time, but if I know you have one final.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Testimony from Thomas to share with us just about what he hopes we all get out of the book and his message.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: yeah so that's very short message from Thomas, I will share the screen again.

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Sorry.

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Dear listeners in April 1945 when I was liberated from the camp who invited at the age of 15 I decided to document what I saw and experience to choose two years, together with my friends at the camps of Auschwitz go slower and born in the set of over at drawing this and maps.

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Two years later I started also to write from the years of 90 I am active is returns and tell about the past.

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i'm asked why I did this, I chose to record in 10 about the US, because it is important for me that's also knows that.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): brand or there could learn about the past and know exactly what happened.

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to remember the past as.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: as well, to thank Sydney and the museum for this opportunity.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: You know very honored and thank you for sharing Thank you Charlie again for being our.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: You know, we call the Guardian angel but really for bringing this testimony out to the world, again, we want to thank harper Collins for taking this book on.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: To new audiences and all our partners around the translators at been translating the book all the.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: editors all the teams around the world that help to bring out this testimony we want it's an opportunity to thank everyone, and all the people who support.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Thomas from his first day our incomes after life after camps, all the years through all his friends around the world.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: and supported him and each one in his way and I think the main tones wrote a message here is just to remember and life matters as people matter.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Every person can make a difference for good and for bad and by we can the history was done by people.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: And nowadays when the future is our decision nowadays and there's tournaments that we see that now live around us around the world and the power of unity.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Is endless and we can defeat any darkness through bringing light together, and I think that's the main message of all Holocaust survivor.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Let us, we are it's our responsibility as next generation to make sure that the sacrifice and whatever happened the green past would not be for vain.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Because if we learn from that past and we make a different for a better future than the past, we make the past neta and.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: meaningful to the rest of our lives and directives and information to our children and grandchildren.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: So we hope this word will be impacted where they're kind of where that's Thomas words you hope for a better word than a kind of what everyone.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: Everywhere it's up to us, so we wish the word peaceful time to every person around this word that is not free so freedom and peace to everyone Thank you so much for being here.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Thank you so much you fight, and thank you to Charlie as well, this was such an amazing presentation and.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): I know it's been really meaningful to a lot of people I we've been getting some really great comments in the chat and I would like to thank all of you out there and in the Internet for joining us today.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): And I would also really like to thank Thomas as well, for all of his contributions to today's presentation and for his testimony and his book.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Everything we do at the museum is made possible through donor support.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): To those of you watching the hope you'll consider making a donation to support museum or becoming a member and joining us for upcoming programs so she can check out.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): At the link in the zoom chat also please go out and buy the boy who drew our shirts, which you can also find the link and zoom chat have a great afternoon, and we hope to see you all again in another program, thank you for joining us.

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Yifat Cohn-Meir: bye much.

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Sydney Yaeger (she/her): Thank you everyone bye.