Exploring Neuroscience and the Legacy of the Holocaust

This program’s original recording transcript is below. This transcription was created automatically during a live program so may contain inaccurate transcriptions of some words.

Ari Goldstein: Right i'm Ari Goldstein, Senior Public programs producer at the Museum of Jewish heritage, a living in the Holocaust.

7
00:01:18.060 --> 00:01:26.730
Ari Goldstein: And it's a pleasure to welcome you to today's program exploring neuroscience and the legacy of the Holocaust, with the ripple project which will hear all about today.

8
00:01:27.690 --> 00:01:33.330
Ari Goldstein: we're going to get started with our moderator today who is Israeli actress writer and director millie Avi tall.

9
00:01:33.630 --> 00:01:42.600
Ari Goldstein: Who starred in countless films and has won the Israeli academy Award for best supporting actress millie will kick us off in a moment and introduce the other panelists and the discussion.

10
00:01:43.440 --> 00:01:51.240
Ari Goldstein: please feel free to share questions and comments in the zoom Q amp a box throughout the discussion today and we'll get to as many as we can, towards the end.

11
00:01:52.020 --> 00:01:59.310
Ari Goldstein: we're indebted to the battery park city authority today for their support and collaboration of this program and so much of what we do here at the museum.

12
00:01:59.700 --> 00:02:12.660
Ari Goldstein: This program is sponsored in part to the battery park city authority Community partnership, without further ado welcome millie wrong Roi and and yellow on behalf of all of us, museum, thank you for being with us today, thank you.

13
00:02:13.110 --> 00:02:22.470
Mili Avital: Thank you IRA, thank you, museum of Jewish heritage and members and audience and and all of your that are joining today.

14
00:02:23.610 --> 00:02:25.440
Mili Avital: I would like to introduce to you.

15
00:02:27.120 --> 00:02:34.830
Mili Avital: The people who will speak the most in the snap program which their work we're going to explore the first would be your own.

16
00:02:35.370 --> 00:02:49.200
Mili Avital: URL rick lately RON was born in Israel graduate of nyu tisch school of the arts and an award winning visual storyteller are various capacities film direction computer animation imaging technology consultant and exhibition design.

17
00:02:50.280 --> 00:02:56.610
Mili Avital: His collaborative work has been seen at South by Southwest mass moca celebrate brooklyn among others.

18
00:02:58.260 --> 00:03:08.100
Mili Avital: Also, with us is daniella Schiller she's Israeli born cognitive neuroscientist best known for her research in the area of memory reconsolidation.

19
00:03:09.210 --> 00:03:19.710
Mili Avital: Or the process of restoring memories after they've been retrieved daniella leads the affective neuroscience lab at the Mount Sinai school of medicine her work was published in numerous scholars and.

20
00:03:20.100 --> 00:03:31.950
Mili Avital: scholarly journals as well as several influential books she's the recipient of multiple awards, including the New York Academy of science love that Nick I hope i'm pronouncing it right Award for science.

21
00:03:33.150 --> 00:03:44.790
Mili Avital: Also, with us is Royal Royal is a recipient of the PG PGA producers mark, he was born in Israel moved around as a child from Argentina to Turkey to Canada.

22
00:03:45.270 --> 00:03:55.740
Mili Avital: before settling in the United States his films focus on experiences of intersection ality impact and technology his latest film the garden left behind.

23
00:03:56.070 --> 00:04:09.270
Mili Avital: One at sxsw and was named as one of the top 40 best LGBT Q films of all time by rotten tomatoes, he is the founder of studio autonomous and proud third culture kid.

24
00:04:10.470 --> 00:04:24.300
Mili Avital: So we would like to start, of course, with Iran and who will tell us about the ripple effect the ripple project that he's been working on for over a decade, you said just a minute ago.

25
00:04:24.330 --> 00:04:37.080
Liron Unreich: yeah I know it's hard to believe, yes hi mainly Thank you so much, thank you, museum Thank you are a thank everybody for the opportunity to allow us to present to you what we've been doing i'm going to do a.

26
00:04:37.890 --> 00:04:52.080
Liron Unreich: going to try to condense it see if this works so technology is 5050 with us, but i'm going to do a share screen, with this in there, and if there are any problems with audio or anything, please let me know you should be seeing my keynote now.

27
00:04:54.090 --> 00:04:54.990
Liron Unreich: Okay, great.

28
00:04:57.600 --> 00:04:57.960
Liron Unreich: Okay.

29
00:04:59.400 --> 00:05:07.200
Liron Unreich: This is the challenge here is to condense 40 years of stories 10 to 15 years of work.

30
00:05:08.130 --> 00:05:17.280
Liron Unreich: Thousands of our man hours hundreds of faces into probably 15 Minutes that are that are cohesive and i'm going to try to do it so here, it goes.

31
00:05:18.090 --> 00:05:29.100
Liron Unreich: This is how I grew up i'm not the only one speaking like this, I merely is here with me and so, then the other born in Israel, this was our childhood, this is what we understood that our.

32
00:05:29.640 --> 00:05:37.920
Liron Unreich: Eastern European ancestors came from our northern African families, families came from this was our reality, and this was only.

33
00:05:38.460 --> 00:05:57.030
Liron Unreich: A generation away two generations away this is your great uncle this is your great great, and this is your great grandfather or your grandfather, and for that for many cases, and this is a a brutal but honest way to to to grow in our Community, I had a very happy childhood.

34
00:05:58.440 --> 00:06:03.060
Liron Unreich: Which is was protective it was sheltered but I did go through.

35
00:06:04.320 --> 00:06:09.390
Liron Unreich: I don't even know what it is or how to describe where there was a incident a psychological incident, when I was.

36
00:06:09.840 --> 00:06:15.600
Liron Unreich: About 10 years old, where I was hospitalized for a short time, something I came to term with pretty late in life.

37
00:06:16.110 --> 00:06:20.820
Liron Unreich: And this event was never really resolved, and this is a kind of a joke in the family that.

38
00:06:21.210 --> 00:06:28.350
Liron Unreich: The only way to get me back to school after these episodes was when some doctor screamed at me and said get your ass back in school kid.

39
00:06:28.890 --> 00:06:43.650
Liron Unreich: And that's all I got back in the family has never spoken about this again, I was very, very close to my grandparents and later in life, I learned that them leaving Israel was coincidental with the time that I was going through these episodes.

40
00:06:45.180 --> 00:06:53.610
Liron Unreich: I followed my grandmother and grandfather to do United States was probably 14 or 15 leaving home and that's already me now as a father.

41
00:06:54.150 --> 00:06:59.040
Liron Unreich: And my daughter being 12 I cannot even imagine a an experience like this for the parents and for the child.

42
00:06:59.940 --> 00:07:08.670
Liron Unreich: But during my time there in the United States, I have decided to videotape my grandfather, who was a prolific storyteller.

43
00:07:09.300 --> 00:07:16.140
Liron Unreich: People would gather around listen to his jokes listen to a story it wasn't this and I was taken by it.

44
00:07:16.950 --> 00:07:20.880
Liron Unreich: And I decided to turn on a camera one day and just start asking him questions.

45
00:07:21.540 --> 00:07:31.440
Liron Unreich: He was a single survivor from a family of seven brothers and sisters all lost parents lost cousins uncles really the the the more detail of it all.

46
00:07:32.040 --> 00:07:39.660
Liron Unreich: And through ingenuity dumb luck and just just a good sense of living, he managed to get through.

47
00:07:40.170 --> 00:07:53.610
Liron Unreich: When that interview was over, I wrapped up the tapes threw him away, and I even recall, when I was interviewing him certain points his stories were even a little boring to me I didn't really understand them, I was only 16 at the time, then this happened.

48
00:07:55.020 --> 00:08:03.690
Liron Unreich: I had a kid and two of them, to be honest, a boy and a girl, and at that point, like many others i'm an immigrant and I have to kind of.

49
00:08:04.140 --> 00:08:13.080
Liron Unreich: ask myself the question what is my what am I, bringing to the next generation how those little ones gonna remember me how are they going to know that my grandfather the person that was close to.

50
00:08:14.280 --> 00:08:21.960
Liron Unreich: At the time, I think it was when he was born, I was getting these flashbacks of the interview with my grandfather, which was.

51
00:08:22.500 --> 00:08:30.300
Liron Unreich: Something I never expected at complete segments complete stories were coming back into my memory, even though I haven't seen those takes in years.

52
00:08:30.990 --> 00:08:41.730
Liron Unreich: So what I did was, I decided to open up and dust those tapes and see what I can do with them, I contacted my grandfather's best friend at the time, His name was Herman taupe.

53
00:08:42.330 --> 00:08:54.000
Liron Unreich: My grandfather has passed at that point, and this was in Maryland and his friend who was also a poet and writer who dedicated his whole life to commemorating stories of other survivors.

54
00:08:54.960 --> 00:08:59.970
Liron Unreich: And I was inspired by that and I wanted to come and ask him what, how can I retail.

55
00:09:00.480 --> 00:09:07.050
Liron Unreich: sabo which is grandfather Sabah story that you would mean something for my children it wasn't thinking about making it for anybody else.

56
00:09:07.530 --> 00:09:15.300
Liron Unreich: is really just for them, and he said we're on do the thing you do best and at that time and so today I make movies.

57
00:09:15.720 --> 00:09:23.850
Liron Unreich: So I took my brother my cousin got a couple cameras and we decided to allow Herman to tell the story of my grandfather through his eyes.

58
00:09:24.480 --> 00:09:28.890
Liron Unreich: But there was a disconnect there, I felt that Herman had his own story to tell.

59
00:09:29.820 --> 00:09:36.000
Liron Unreich: And the only time it was affected is when we were actually reading the transcript of my grandfather's words were playing the tape in the background.

60
00:09:36.540 --> 00:09:46.410
Liron Unreich: While Herman was just sitting in the room and going through his daily life, and this is the result of that, and I hope, if you can hear it, I hope the sound is okay well yeah cold at my at.

61
00:09:47.790 --> 00:09:55.410
My ETA on there, like it would be ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma ma nothing.

62
00:09:56.640 --> 00:10:02.760
Shame on him to you, then the sub bomb sha tsui missile option ma.

63
00:10:04.560 --> 00:10:13.470
ma ma ma ma ma they should get money yeah mom is he a star, I mean the ocean, I mean.

64
00:10:15.510 --> 00:10:16.770
You can you do my healing.

65
00:10:18.210 --> 00:10:19.110
And you keep it short.

66
00:10:23.640 --> 00:10:34.260
Liron Unreich: So, in essence, this is he talks audio his voice from that tape and Herman reacting to it in his everyday living in suburban Maryland.

67
00:10:35.640 --> 00:10:42.240
Liron Unreich: When I put those two together, I realized that I had a much bigger story, and at that point, I said okay I got to find out more.

68
00:10:42.780 --> 00:10:51.270
Liron Unreich: So I started traveling around and because i'm in the creative field, I was interested in creativity in the Holocaust and people who are creating under dire condition.

69
00:10:52.080 --> 00:11:02.040
Liron Unreich: And I went to two camps mid dozens of survivors admit their kids grandkids was probably six years of hard work, hundreds of hours of videos.

70
00:11:02.910 --> 00:11:18.360
Liron Unreich: But the issue was is that I was not making a direct connection I don't want to say that I wasn't satisfied with the work I was doing but I didn't feel like I was getting closer to understanding my own pain and my own personal journey why I left home when I was 15 what is my role.

71
00:11:19.560 --> 00:11:32.760
Liron Unreich: And I almost gave up, I remember, I was sitting with my interns at the time in brooklyn and, by the way, one of them was writing is now a famous producer but, at the time was just an intern.

72
00:11:33.300 --> 00:11:47.700
Liron Unreich: And one of the interns gave me an address for a survivor who lives literally across the street from my old address Of course I didn't believe that person because that's just me and, as I said, as you're wasting my time, but what the heck I went and knocked on the door and I met for.

73
00:11:48.780 --> 00:11:57.840
Liron Unreich: Those of you who who know for attorneys and there's many I think is voices in the in the Museum of Jewish heritage is in the main Hall, we can hear his voice it's one of the narrator's.

74
00:11:58.380 --> 00:12:07.800
Liron Unreich: he's one of the most prolific and important Jews living Jewish artists who survived the Holocaust is non representational work is groundbreaking.

75
00:12:08.820 --> 00:12:13.470
Liron Unreich: But that wasn't what what this was about and i've spent a few days with.

76
00:12:14.700 --> 00:12:17.130
Liron Unreich: Fred, and this is what happened.

77
00:12:29.310 --> 00:12:30.660
This was this is.

78
00:12:33.360 --> 00:12:33.570
yeah.

79
00:12:34.620 --> 00:12:55.590
This was memory was, and this is how the memo is changing, not the of the horror, but how I feel today is more positive alive, and this is an in between painting, and it combines both sides of these paintings.

80
00:12:57.330 --> 00:12:58.410
Shared memory.

81
00:13:05.010 --> 00:13:14.640
Liron Unreich: Shared memory in intrusive memory, which is a phenomenal where you a person will be attacked by memories and traumas of the past there's something that.

82
00:13:15.180 --> 00:13:25.050
Liron Unreich: People with ptsd deal with a lot, and one of the things that Fred would say is that, when he after he speaks of the shore to to a group it's like.

83
00:13:25.410 --> 00:13:33.450
Liron Unreich: You have like a bass player in his belly or somebody in a soul, please soul out and it takes a beast to recover from it, because all these memories resurface.

84
00:13:34.290 --> 00:13:42.180
Liron Unreich: And fred's ability to deal with memory as zero as it if it was fluid, as if it was a sculpture, is it was one of his pieces.

85
00:13:42.720 --> 00:13:53.850
Liron Unreich: A same story St pete same history same picture look different 30 years in between because that's his attitude towards the memory has blown my mind it still does today.

86
00:13:54.900 --> 00:14:04.530
Liron Unreich: It gave me the the strength to believe that I have the power to control, some of these these experience and i'm not just a passive part of it, but i'm active.

87
00:14:05.370 --> 00:14:13.590
Liron Unreich: And I that to me was a game changer in the screening for this short and I was working on it daniella and milliken.

88
00:14:14.430 --> 00:14:22.950
Liron Unreich: And after the short was done and was we had a wonderful speech by Fred and it was extremely touching daniella came down to me million producer to me.

89
00:14:23.460 --> 00:14:30.540
Liron Unreich: And then he said Oh, this is great, you know good job I don't like Holocaust movies, as you probably heard in the movie but you know good job, good for you.

90
00:14:30.960 --> 00:14:34.830
Liron Unreich: And I said Oh well, Nice to meet you, thank you, why did you come from so well you know.

91
00:14:35.460 --> 00:14:46.950
Liron Unreich: My dad he's kind of a funny thing I talk about him he's a survivor but he never speaks it is experiencing doesn't spend during the sirens of the Holocaust Memorial Day, which is a no no in Israel.

92
00:14:47.580 --> 00:14:59.520
Liron Unreich: But he's never going to speak and I said well i'd be curious to speak in him, she goes you're going to waste your time I said well great i'm good in wasting my time two weeks later, we were there with cameras and sitting in front of Sigmund.

93
00:15:00.570 --> 00:15:01.710
Liron Unreich: And the rest is history.

94
00:15:20.310 --> 00:15:20.610
Show.

95
00:15:23.700 --> 00:15:26.820
me a message with the bell can a.

96
00:15:28.980 --> 00:15:30.150
parent every dq.

97
00:15:36.180 --> 00:15:39.300
dufka being famous is a clue.

98
00:15:44.070 --> 00:15:51.420
is also a scientist she is a drummer and tonight, she has a documentary film crew following her around and i'm very excited.

99
00:15:53.430 --> 00:15:53.670
Liron Unreich: that's.

100
00:15:54.900 --> 00:16:04.140
Liron Unreich: One of the lessons or the experiences here is that, besides the fact that we were sitting with zeke more in a moment, where he has never spoken before and Daniela is going to elaborate this a lot more.

101
00:16:05.130 --> 00:16:12.450
Liron Unreich: Again, it was disempowering moments, where I felt I become so selfish about my storytelling and where I want to go with this that I have the power.

102
00:16:12.990 --> 00:16:23.490
Liron Unreich: to absorb I have the power to influence and as long as there's a recipient, on the other side, it becomes a soak a cycle and that cycle is enriching to everyone around.

103
00:16:24.600 --> 00:16:24.960
Liron Unreich: When.

104
00:16:26.040 --> 00:16:32.970
Liron Unreich: When I was working on the flux and will be the one you saw earlier, I have a friend who's a producer of a mutual friend of myself and mark.

105
00:16:33.630 --> 00:16:44.550
Liron Unreich: And he introduced me to mark mark is a an artist, he is an artist in New York artist when you meet him his art does not represent Jewish upbringing or Jewish life, it does recently, but not when I met him.

106
00:16:45.030 --> 00:16:51.390
Liron Unreich: I was in a show up is a solo show is these hyper realistic paintings, this was in upstate New York.

107
00:16:51.990 --> 00:17:00.030
Liron Unreich: And he came to me, and he said, are you are, and he has this kind of deep a boy, so you will be wrong, I said yes so i've seen your your Isaac movie or grandfather movie.

108
00:17:00.750 --> 00:17:10.920
Liron Unreich: And he just froze and then he gave me a hug and I just met the guy and he goes like I know it's a word that one cannot say, but when i've heard it, I was empowered.

109
00:17:11.820 --> 00:17:21.720
Liron Unreich: I I there was a confidence there and I could feel that the word is spreading and people were joining in and mark story blew my mind.

110
00:17:22.200 --> 00:17:34.800
Liron Unreich: Mark told me that he is a clandestine Holocaust color this time art Holocaust scholar he investigated art that was done during the Holocaust, and it was my goal to this idea of creativity under.

111
00:17:35.490 --> 00:17:41.280
Liron Unreich: terrible conditions, because without that creative spirit what is left of us and mark would lecture all across the country.

112
00:17:42.120 --> 00:17:52.440
Liron Unreich: And there he met this little tiny physical tiny grand person named Nina jacobson she was a survivor they met in elmira upstate New York.

113
00:17:53.130 --> 00:18:02.280
Liron Unreich: And when you heard mark describe dina it felt like salt like two people in love marks description of her was so warm and so deep.

114
00:18:02.880 --> 00:18:14.610
Liron Unreich: That I couldn't help myself but to follow that journey and we've empowered mark and sit down in front of the net and mark has done a deep interview with her where we shot both of them.

115
00:18:15.180 --> 00:18:20.520
Liron Unreich: And at the end he's painting a portrait of are we on oh I didn't know no one said mark go.

116
00:18:20.940 --> 00:18:26.970
Liron Unreich: you're going to edit this correct, yes, each time you ask the question, maybe just stay stay, looking at the camera.

117
00:18:27.360 --> 00:18:39.060
Liron Unreich: yeah i'm gonna start again so here's what you're going to say in your hands can be done my name look at me, though, well just my name is Nina jacobson I am from Behold up Poland born in 1922.

118
00:18:40.590 --> 00:18:47.790
My name is dina jacobson I was born in Poland may the fifth 1922.

119
00:18:49.530 --> 00:18:57.390
every night they came to establish came in to pay people to go to mediation they didn't see me because I was the smallest.

120
00:19:03.150 --> 00:19:05.160
Nobody tried to help us a time.

121
00:19:06.450 --> 00:19:13.620
When I went to unable to give me a potato piece of bread they close the door, I mean.

122
00:19:14.850 --> 00:19:24.780
The idea is we're going to end every interview with the person and you're the first so you're setting the precedent, so we want everyone just to close their eyes and keep them close.

123
00:19:27.690 --> 00:19:45.450
Liron Unreich: This idea of post memory witnessing it's a the fact that mark can live dina's horde and take the responsibility of retailing and through a portrait or a story was exactly something that was breathtaking to me and inspiring.

124
00:19:47.310 --> 00:19:57.210
Liron Unreich: The last character in this journey is David David is not a Jew, I met David under normal circumstances, through some school event.

125
00:19:57.750 --> 00:20:05.970
Liron Unreich: And I was, I was hanging out there, I heard the word about means Father in Hebrew and I oh Nava because i'm the only about that I know in that classroom.

126
00:20:06.690 --> 00:20:13.050
Liron Unreich: But when I saw a little girl go to David, I said to me, I didn't know that we use really said no, are you Jewish know why is your keep calling you other.

127
00:20:13.470 --> 00:20:21.630
Liron Unreich: He said it's some other story i'll tell you some other time through the years David has gotten to know my work and one day he wrote me a letter, and this is what he said.

128
00:20:22.650 --> 00:20:25.590
Who am I Why am I here.

129
00:20:26.640 --> 00:20:36.660
Where am I going where Am I heading one night before the meal, while seeing the prayer I had this vision soldiers kicked in the door.

130
00:20:37.170 --> 00:20:45.510
And they took us there's no such thing as coincidence what's our connection a teacher at the Kaaba law Center in Manhattan told me.

131
00:20:46.110 --> 00:21:01.260
David you were one of us, you were part of the German resistance you brought us food i'm a Christian i'm a Jew i'm a Holocaust survivor i'm on a quest to find out the details of my story.

132
00:21:24.330 --> 00:21:30.540
Liron Unreich: David has put it all on the line, David has everything to lose from this film.

133
00:21:32.040 --> 00:21:41.160
Liron Unreich: hit, these are deep deep secrets of somebody who is creative director at an advertising agency, his wife two kids and nobody knows that story.

134
00:21:42.600 --> 00:21:49.500
Liron Unreich: And now, well, many of you do he's opened up to me and this idea of it's a term called prosthetic memory is when.

135
00:21:50.790 --> 00:22:05.130
Liron Unreich: Someone else's memories from another culture are being lived through you, and that that is just David hasn't lived or maybe has, through these experiences, but now there is, and I find that.

136
00:22:06.240 --> 00:22:15.300
Liron Unreich: Unbelievably, empowering and the way David sees me and the way he describes me you've spoken many times, these words I hear about my grandfather.

137
00:22:15.780 --> 00:22:27.600
Liron Unreich: you're a great storyteller you inspire me it's if you made me laugh 300 years ago, and this is part of my journey and that's why we're here today, so.

138
00:22:28.680 --> 00:22:30.870
Liron Unreich: Hope that's see.

139
00:22:32.280 --> 00:22:32.610
Liron Unreich: gone.

140
00:22:36.480 --> 00:22:37.050
Liron Unreich: My back.

141
00:22:39.510 --> 00:22:44.010
Mili Avital: i'm sorry it's a it's it's an incredible project and and.

142
00:22:45.450 --> 00:22:56.490
Mili Avital: what's really interesting is actually how does a horizontal quality to it, which is where you explore people of different parts of the world and cultures, but.

143
00:22:57.000 --> 00:23:09.900
Mili Avital: there's also a vertical part of it, which is going through the different generations and your angle is particularly unique, which is really about the second generation third generation, the effect of.

144
00:23:11.040 --> 00:23:14.520
Mili Avital: Post traumatic memory and that brings us to daniella who.

145
00:23:15.570 --> 00:23:28.290
Mili Avital: The, of course, her angle is neuroscience but also you have a personal stake in this, can you tell a little bit about what brought you to eventually go and interview her dad given how you didn't want to.

146
00:23:30.480 --> 00:23:34.950
Daniela Schiller: I didn't have anything to lose it was a close to.

147
00:23:36.270 --> 00:23:43.200
Daniela Schiller: Ada it was around 286 and it was there was no use of gift, asking him and nothing happened.

148
00:23:44.820 --> 00:23:50.130
Daniela Schiller: I heard about different Holocaust projects, and I was trying to call him and figure out something.

149
00:23:51.570 --> 00:24:06.990
Daniela Schiller: Everything was kind of a lost cause until I met RON and he was willing to take the risk to me, I thought it's gonna be weird because what am I gonna bring strangers to my home, why would my father talks to them, but.

150
00:24:08.040 --> 00:24:14.850
Daniela Schiller: This is a suicide mission in a sense, it just right, you know just try everything and.

151
00:24:16.140 --> 00:24:16.860
Daniela Schiller: It was worth it.

152
00:24:17.280 --> 00:24:27.750
Mili Avital: And how is it connected that how did it affect your life in a way that affected your work and research his being being being witnessing.

153
00:24:29.640 --> 00:24:31.440
Mili Avital: Someone who walks around with a trauma.

154
00:24:33.390 --> 00:24:35.430
Daniela Schiller: You mean before he told his story.

155
00:24:35.490 --> 00:24:46.200
Mili Avital: Yes, just from being growing up in it, because, like he was saying, if, when you grew up in Israel, you grow up among ptsd the whole country's ptsd whether.

156
00:24:46.710 --> 00:24:48.240
Mili Avital: Whatever or wars or.

157
00:24:48.690 --> 00:24:59.970
Mili Avital: Right we're all, and so I think as kids We really are those images you showed, which are maybe would shock people that didn't grow up with it, it is it's true that's what's kind of our default.

158
00:25:01.050 --> 00:25:12.600
Mili Avital: Pictures of history, so the question is that for you being having someone at home, carrying that load, how did it affect your your research.

159
00:25:13.470 --> 00:25:29.190
Daniela Schiller: yeah it was a an added weight on the whole thing not not only you get it in ceremonies and in school and in all sorts of education, you come home, and you know that he has to do something with it.

160
00:25:29.790 --> 00:25:38.700
Daniela Schiller: And like anybody who doesn't tell you all the secret your imagination starts to run free there's no limit to what you can imagine.

161
00:25:39.840 --> 00:25:50.760
Daniela Schiller: And the fact that he didn't wanna talk about it was even making the way imagined it darker you just don't know, and it was.

162
00:25:52.410 --> 00:26:03.240
Daniela Schiller: Was was aching for link kind of I felt that he if he would tell me, we would make a connection and as long as he didn't tell me it felt like a wall between us.

163
00:26:05.070 --> 00:26:08.100
Mili Avital: Is there a link that we can see something of the.

164
00:26:08.370 --> 00:26:08.790
Yes.

165
00:26:10.170 --> 00:26:15.570
Liron Unreich: Ari Ari if you can hear me this one of the videos I gave you about that with daniella and her father.

166
00:26:16.860 --> 00:26:17.730
Liron Unreich: her father DC.

167
00:26:18.630 --> 00:26:23.940
Mili Avital: Like I mentioned in the bio that that that daniella is have had groundbreaking.

168
00:26:25.350 --> 00:26:26.070
Mili Avital: Research.

169
00:26:27.360 --> 00:26:35.670
Mili Avital: Especially reconsolidation of memory, and this is her field, so we are Muslims i'm wondering, we sell it and a half of the whole.

170
00:26:37.320 --> 00:26:38.910
need to go beyond.

171
00:26:40.920 --> 00:26:42.540
me, probably the assumption.

172
00:26:43.980 --> 00:26:44.040
hard.

173
00:26:49.170 --> 00:26:52.860
Worker fish peer hmm i'll be like oh MIA mama.

174
00:26:58.200 --> 00:26:59.370
MIA mama mama.

175
00:27:01.200 --> 00:27:03.330
About that to be noisy see.

176
00:27:06.450 --> 00:27:15.750
Liron Unreich: I think that I think that one of one of one of the most this is part of what we discussed that I think Daniela with this was a shocker for you, maybe, but when I meeting Daniela.

177
00:27:16.170 --> 00:27:24.420
Liron Unreich: She was always about controlling fear, I mean this is, I don't want to simplify what you do, but it is about being able to control abstract.

178
00:27:24.960 --> 00:27:32.400
Liron Unreich: notions and I know you're a drummer you do skydiving and it's all about controlling your anxiety of performance you became a drama.

179
00:27:32.880 --> 00:27:37.860
Liron Unreich: You were scared to jump off airplanes you started jumping on purpose about controlling fear and all of a sudden her father.

180
00:27:38.640 --> 00:27:44.940
Liron Unreich: comes in and just simply just opens that Gordian knot like it's like it's nothing, and I remember Daniela space there.

181
00:27:45.480 --> 00:27:55.380
Liron Unreich: And it was just it was a face of she was started you really you did this, yes, I can control it, she goes what and I that was just an amazing moment.

182
00:27:56.310 --> 00:28:07.260
Liron Unreich: Another thing is daniella held the camera so we gave them the small camera and when we first met zygmunt and she said in front of him with the camera and we're all around him.

183
00:28:07.830 --> 00:28:13.860
Liron Unreich: I think he didn't want to embarrass daniella he said, you know what the hell i'm going to talk and that's what we are.

184
00:28:16.350 --> 00:28:20.550
Mili Avital: Before we move to Roy, I just wanted to ask a question about.

185
00:28:21.660 --> 00:28:37.020
Mili Avital: Leo and maybe you can even answer it later, but but to connect us from your experience as as as the creator of this project is there a common denominator between the second or third generation, in other words.

186
00:28:38.160 --> 00:28:44.370
Mili Avital: What is the effect that you could see on on people in general, is there a general.

187
00:28:46.290 --> 00:28:57.210
Liron Unreich: Quality so i'm not a scientist and there's people who do research about this day and night for organizations that do this, I think, deep but deep inside as human beings, we all know the answer.

188
00:28:57.630 --> 00:29:01.080
Liron Unreich: From epigenetics, we know that we know by now, as a matter of fact.

189
00:29:01.530 --> 00:29:14.220
Liron Unreich: That if somebody goes through a trauma that will affect an unborn child that will that will physically change your DNA structure it's something that researches but his humanity we've always known that there's a lot of secrets that we know deep inside.

190
00:29:15.510 --> 00:29:22.500
Liron Unreich: I think it's trauma since trauma, is that you have a black and white trauma where you obviously can see someone who has gone through horrific experience.

191
00:29:22.800 --> 00:29:32.310
Liron Unreich: My grandfather he's lost everybody came home so his family that is her turn white he suffered from ptsd done do that, but what is my trauma i've had a great life.

192
00:29:32.850 --> 00:29:44.520
Liron Unreich: How dare I say that I suffered from a trauma, but I do believe that I did, and many of us do it's all about this idea of receiving this idea of opening up to this experience.

193
00:29:45.120 --> 00:29:54.390
Liron Unreich: and, hopefully, then you see it and others is the trauma diminished through the generations from what i've seen is just changes, but what does not does not diminish.

194
00:29:54.720 --> 00:29:56.190
Mili Avital: Well, definitely communicating.

195
00:29:57.240 --> 00:30:04.860
Mili Avital: Through over the generations that that's definitely part of the there's no doubt that's part of the healing process and i'd love to.

196
00:30:05.880 --> 00:30:17.430
Mili Avital: to invite worry to tell us your personal part in the project and your in your past your present and and and how you work on film thats related to minorities and.

197
00:30:18.720 --> 00:30:22.080
Mili Avital: transgenders are part of this sure sure.

198
00:30:22.380 --> 00:30:30.660
Roy Wol: First of all, thank you so much it's a seeing liberal and speak about this again it's so emotional for me and also seeing this interaction between all of us.

199
00:30:32.550 --> 00:30:40.350
Roy Wol: Just like we don't say I was just an intern who found their own through craigslist.com, which is a website that no longer is used, I think, as much.

200
00:30:40.830 --> 00:30:50.370
Roy Wol: And at the time the posting was related to some story about a play that would be put on on Rwanda, about the genocide, and so I was very inspired by that.

201
00:30:50.760 --> 00:31:00.990
Roy Wol: I mean, I met the team of the ripple project at the time it was a different version of what it is now, and it was very inspiring and pretty quickly we jelled near on I see there on as my brother.

202
00:31:01.620 --> 00:31:07.590
Roy Wol: You know older brother or do I do have a real brother as well, who is in England now and.

203
00:31:08.310 --> 00:31:25.560
Roy Wol: You know, slowly, we got more and more involved, I did some sound design, I did some not sound design sound recording actually I you know, I was involved in some of the interviews and years later, here we are trying to you know launch this project and with the help of everybody involved.

204
00:31:26.700 --> 00:31:39.000
Roy Wol: And in terms of like stories and impact, which is something that I think incredibly important, I always remind myself that narratives are the programming of the human mind.

205
00:31:39.510 --> 00:31:47.880
Roy Wol: I see it, almost like a in a scientific level, although i'm not a scientist and I apologize in advance if there is Danny to daniella for first but and then.

206
00:31:48.840 --> 00:31:54.360
Roy Wol: scientist, you know, listening to this but I strongly believe that stories have a very, very.

207
00:31:54.960 --> 00:32:00.120
Roy Wol: strong impact on the human mind especially when you're a child, when your brain is still developing and so forth.

208
00:32:00.630 --> 00:32:12.600
Roy Wol: So as a third culture kid myself, which many people don't know this term, yes i'm Jewish half ashkenazi have Sephardic you know my my my dad side, the Turkish side from the Spain.

209
00:32:13.020 --> 00:32:23.730
Roy Wol: They you know that's I didn't really have that much experience with regards to holocaust, besides, you know, sharing the stories, but there was no one in the family that had a barcode party.

210
00:32:24.300 --> 00:32:35.250
Roy Wol: and on my mom's side the Argentinian mom who was she was born Argentina with her parents were the immigrants and my grandpa apparently who I never met he passed away before I was born had.

211
00:32:35.820 --> 00:32:55.890
Roy Wol: Had the barcode on his arm and i'll be very honest, you know in my family, the Holocaust with regards to my grandpa wasn't as much discussed, and I remember, through my mom that he was a very happy man and and you know this this, this is the limit of it which I always found it a little.

212
00:32:57.150 --> 00:33:08.280
Roy Wol: You know protective perhaps you know, there was this unspoken thing, and when I met Iran, and so what he was going after and I felt so connected to what he was doing and.

213
00:33:09.000 --> 00:33:27.090
Roy Wol: To be quite frankly I live Holocaust through their own you know I see this project for myself as a as also a way to live this and we to share with my kids once I, if I have some once I have some and in terms of back to the other work as well, in terms of minority.

214
00:33:28.650 --> 00:33:39.120
Roy Wol: You know, not to go out of the Holocaust subject, but you know I as a third culture kid I believe in intersection ality I believe in sharing stories with each other and including.

215
00:33:39.540 --> 00:33:45.000
Roy Wol: And, and I feel, one of the characters in the story that the owner has crafted so beautifully.

216
00:33:45.510 --> 00:34:02.190
Roy Wol: It is going beyond our Community, and is, including another Community as well, which I think it's going to be very helpful with impact screenings that we're hoping to do after the film and you know I can speak more about this, but that's did your Thomas we do, we have done.

217
00:34:03.300 --> 00:34:09.090
Roy Wol: You know stories related to the transgender Community where we've employed nearly 50 people we've also.

218
00:34:09.810 --> 00:34:17.430
Roy Wol: You know, done projects with American Muslim experience, these are all minorities and the hope is the bridge between all the communities and.

219
00:34:18.240 --> 00:34:27.720
Roy Wol: And I always say you know trauma doesn't know race trauma doesn't know gender trauma doesn't know time you know and and I think the story connects them all.

220
00:34:28.290 --> 00:34:31.170
Mili Avital: And, and can you just clarify what is the third culture.

221
00:34:33.060 --> 00:34:36.120
Roy Wol: it's interesting you know I had an interview yesterday about this flip.

222
00:34:37.020 --> 00:34:44.280
Roy Wol: there's a really nice graph I can share, but I wasn't ready to share it but in every case in everyone is different, but a lot of people who.

223
00:34:44.580 --> 00:34:49.170
Roy Wol: Who during their childhood during the development phase when they move between many cultures.

224
00:34:49.920 --> 00:34:55.350
Roy Wol: They become used to permanent goodbyes and they're basically from nowhere there from everywhere.

225
00:34:56.010 --> 00:35:03.330
Roy Wol: So, to give you an example, you know I grew up a partial a portion of my life in Turkey, my name is Roy Roy is another Turkish name.

226
00:35:04.020 --> 00:35:13.110
Roy Wol: What people thought I was Armenian because that's what they see so I dropped my childhood, I had to explain i'm not Armenian and then, when I was in Argentina, they called me a taco.

227
00:35:13.530 --> 00:35:31.410
Roy Wol: But that's a different story, because I didn't go into core everyone in the Middle East and so so naturally you know I we spoke about this with their on to but, naturally, you know I still feel today that I I don't think I have a home and I continue to travel, I hope, to stop one day.

228
00:35:32.430 --> 00:35:43.200
Roy Wol: But the stories are taking me there and I repatriated to the US, because you know I believe us is a beautiful melting pots with with all its glory and all its everything you know.

229
00:35:43.710 --> 00:35:50.490
Roy Wol: And I I do feel New York, that is a beautiful place and I see that everyone is actually in this panel also New York so yeah.

230
00:35:50.580 --> 00:35:52.350
Mili Avital: and definitely we're all connected by.

231
00:35:53.460 --> 00:36:01.470
Mili Avital: By by history and past and can I ask them the yellow i'm daniella, can you tell a little bit about the reconsolidation.

232
00:36:02.820 --> 00:36:04.440
Mili Avital: Which which is.

233
00:36:05.490 --> 00:36:10.110
Mili Avital: sort of the result of your of your process also with your dad i'm assuming.

234
00:36:11.370 --> 00:36:25.680
Daniela Schiller: yeah reconsolidation is a it's a term that was coined in the 60s, but it actually gotten us in the last two decades, when it was kind of a rebirth of the interest in a process of memory modification.

235
00:36:26.820 --> 00:36:37.260
Daniela Schiller: we're used to think that memory is permanent that you still Ruth was through a process of consolidation, this is a theory that dominated entire 20th century.

236
00:36:37.950 --> 00:36:43.770
Daniela Schiller: And then, a few decades ago, there was some pretty compelling evidence that when you retrieve a memory.

237
00:36:44.220 --> 00:36:52.560
Daniela Schiller: It has to be stored again and undergoes a process that is similar to the initial storage, and this is why it was starting to reconsolidation.

238
00:36:53.190 --> 00:36:59.430
Daniela Schiller: And because it has to be restored the moment you retrieve it is actually the moment where it's unstable.

239
00:37:00.240 --> 00:37:14.070
Daniela Schiller: It actually might be gone if you don't store it again and, once you distort you could modify it could incorporate new information that is available at the time of retrieval and that change the view of memory was a paradigm shift.

240
00:37:15.210 --> 00:37:26.670
Daniela Schiller: And now, instead of thinking of short term memory switching into long term memory, we think about memory that is active and inactive and most effective, it could be revised.

241
00:37:27.390 --> 00:37:29.880
Mili Avital: Because we so we can change our memories what you're saying.

242
00:37:30.720 --> 00:37:40.590
Daniela Schiller: I think it's a what the research is suggesting is that the natural function of memory is to be dynamic that goes.

243
00:37:42.180 --> 00:37:46.050
Daniela Schiller: From the state of being active and inactive and along the way it changes.

244
00:37:47.340 --> 00:37:54.390
Daniela Schiller: So it's not always the case, but there are a lot of opportunities in the lifetime of the memory, to revise it.

245
00:37:55.140 --> 00:38:05.250
Liron Unreich: So I have a question for you about that that clip I showed with with Fred so Fred talks he paints a painting of this was a killing.

246
00:38:05.820 --> 00:38:23.070
Liron Unreich: graveyard that he saw up seven years ago, and he painted that painting about six times in his life in every time he says that painting looks different because his memory of the event is different would that be a parallel to to reconsolidation.

247
00:38:23.970 --> 00:38:35.070
Daniela Schiller: yeah there was a really remarkable moment in fred's movie that deeply moved me, and that was the moment I knew I want to work with you.

248
00:38:36.120 --> 00:38:48.360
Daniela Schiller: Because outside of the resurgence never so such an accurate depiction of it, art, I only thought about it and her about or read about it in the context of science.

249
00:38:49.680 --> 00:38:56.220
Daniela Schiller: But he showed it so beautifully and it's important because the the idea of memory modification has several levels.

250
00:38:57.120 --> 00:39:08.700
Daniela Schiller: Some aspects of it is that you just modify the effects that's going on one topic of research, but one that I was more interested in is that you change the emotional tone of it.

251
00:39:10.380 --> 00:39:24.240
Daniela Schiller: how you feel when you retrieve it and I think this is what Fred was capturing is the emotion that he has when he remembers so it's not about the changing of the memory it's the changing of your emotional reaction to it.

252
00:39:27.630 --> 00:39:40.230
Mili Avital: Now, and it's it feels also so relevant as memory is is we're dealing with memory, even on a daily basis, as we read the news and relay on rely on people's memory for.

253
00:39:40.650 --> 00:39:50.340
Mili Avital: Whether it's legal stories or emotional stories and it just feel so incredibly relevant especially that today we have more cameras that.

254
00:39:51.810 --> 00:39:59.130
Mili Avital: Maybe, will you know, maybe we'll make memories more of the opposite of dynamic committee that will make it.

255
00:39:59.310 --> 00:40:00.720
Liron Unreich: A lot last.

256
00:40:01.230 --> 00:40:13.740
Mili Avital: But but, but what do you think is why, why is this project that we're the ripple project so relevant because it is relevant and it's incredibly moving and why is it so relevant these days.

257
00:40:15.000 --> 00:40:16.200
Liron Unreich: Well, I can speak for me.

258
00:40:17.310 --> 00:40:26.760
Liron Unreich: I we live in bed stuy and and if anyone hears heard this story I apologize, but we live, we live in bed stuy and during the black lives matter.

259
00:40:29.010 --> 00:40:35.910
Liron Unreich: protest and and wonderful voices that came up in the air we were on Bedford avenue, which was one of the main arteries of that.

260
00:40:36.600 --> 00:40:43.620
Liron Unreich: And, as I was going through this this was just coming off in the middle of the pandemic, I was spending a lot of time in my basement.

261
00:40:44.160 --> 00:40:51.570
Liron Unreich: Working with a lot of time alone, and again I when I when I go through harder and confusing times I refer back to my Bible, which is like.

262
00:40:52.020 --> 00:40:57.900
Liron Unreich: 20 hours of my grandfather's words and in there, there was a story that he told about his sister.

263
00:40:58.710 --> 00:41:06.330
Liron Unreich: his sister was, together with the brothers and sisters they escaped to Russia, what is today the border town, but it was in Russia.

264
00:41:06.870 --> 00:41:12.840
Liron Unreich: They escaped Poland, when the war broke they've heard about this awful things okay I gotta go get let's get our parents from Poland.

265
00:41:13.350 --> 00:41:20.160
Liron Unreich: So the younger sister said no problem i'm going to go take a train i'm going to go back bring up by an email we're going to bring them to Russia everybody will be fine.

266
00:41:20.700 --> 00:41:34.140
Liron Unreich: She gets on the train and she gets back to our hometown this is be the equivalent of my daughter getting off on Franklin avenue on the sea, stop the train stops she takes all the time, and she knows, and she got off the train seven peanuts time.

267
00:41:35.340 --> 00:41:43.290
Liron Unreich: Polish Nazi soldier stopped her and said to her what she didn't know that at that point that laws have changed and Jews have to wear a yellow.

268
00:41:43.950 --> 00:41:54.210
Liron Unreich: star she didn't know so she stopped the young police officer stops, where it says, let me see your papers, she goes, why would I show you my papers, this makes no sense, like let me see your face.

269
00:41:54.870 --> 00:42:02.820
Liron Unreich: looks at the period goes, are you a Jew again irrelevant leave me alone I don't know anything okay you're a Jew where's your yellow star.

270
00:42:03.420 --> 00:42:09.570
Liron Unreich: At this point, is what the yellow star I don't know what you're talking about, I just want to go home, I live two blocks away I gotta go pick up my parents.

271
00:42:09.990 --> 00:42:18.840
Liron Unreich: gave me the yellow star show me the other side, you know what i'm pulling you in he pulled her in you're under arrest, at that point she's the rebel that she was she spent in his face.

272
00:42:19.650 --> 00:42:27.510
Liron Unreich: And he shot her on the spot in front of everybody in that town Square and that's the reason we know the story that moment of her being shocked.

273
00:42:28.050 --> 00:42:32.730
Liron Unreich: has started the downfall of the family, because there was nobody to bring the parents back.

274
00:42:33.240 --> 00:42:43.800
Liron Unreich: Then the other brothers and sisters who are risk word is safe and Russia, decided to come back to Poland and bring the parents and they got captured in Poland in that sense, that was the end of that family line.

275
00:42:44.610 --> 00:42:56.010
Liron Unreich: And that story was right after George floyd was happening, and it may DNA was screaming like hey someone in your family knows this there's a story that happened to you before.

276
00:42:56.640 --> 00:43:11.520
Liron Unreich: And it can happen again, and I think that's why these stories are are extremely valuable because they're not part of some unique culture they're not part of part of a Jewish country club Their stories of humanity and that's why i'm continuing with this project.

277
00:43:14.100 --> 00:43:25.500
Mili Avital: So it's great, and I want to continue with questions, because we have really fascinating questions from the audience and I don't want to ignore it, even though we can keep on talking about so many things.

278
00:43:26.340 --> 00:43:38.910
Mili Avital: i'm going to read it, I have about five questions that i'd like to to relate to you, so the first question is, is it easier to talk to strangers, rather than family about personal trauma and why.

279
00:43:40.050 --> 00:43:41.070
Mili Avital: Anybody would like to.

280
00:43:41.970 --> 00:43:44.400
Liron Unreich: answer that would be daniella you've got to go for that Daniela.

281
00:43:45.570 --> 00:44:07.770
Daniela Schiller: yeah i'm in it was definitely the case with my father, and I think what Iran provided was a bridge between us and even when he talked it was it was like he wasn't talking to me was actually talking to the other people to live on and to the V, the the cameraman.

282
00:44:09.000 --> 00:44:27.390
Daniela Schiller: And I realized that because i'm his daughter, it was the hardest and i'm the youngest let's keep pestering him about tell me tell me and it's just the hardest to to talk to your daughter, because you want to protect her, and I know I understand, after he talked.

283
00:44:28.620 --> 00:44:39.750
Daniela Schiller: which was actually a little bit I realize why I didn't talk until this day and I see how it affects me, and I can imagine what happened if I heard this as a young kid.

284
00:44:40.410 --> 00:44:58.230
Daniela Schiller: And he had the sense that you can just drop it on little children and you're not really sure when they're ready and what I thought is that I think there was a moment he understood i'm ready, and this is when he shared, but I still think it wouldn't have happened.

285
00:45:00.030 --> 00:45:07.470
Daniela Schiller: Without the movie without that bridge that gave him the platform and they're the context that he could manage in terms of.

286
00:45:09.090 --> 00:45:10.890
Daniela Schiller: revealing his thoughts and feelings.

287
00:45:11.400 --> 00:45:19.290
Mili Avital: Right and that's the nice thing about our doesn't win films, especially, which is it really opens up your heart and allows you to experience things that maybe.

288
00:45:19.830 --> 00:45:33.240
Mili Avital: Maybe you wouldn't with your own family, and so thank you Elizabeth for this question and I have a question from eileen have you explored how memories are rewritten rewritten and rewritten in autobiographies and auto fiction.

289
00:45:34.740 --> 00:45:36.270
Mili Avital: anybody wants to relate to that.

290
00:45:37.680 --> 00:45:39.030
Liron Unreich: Also, so you start with that right.

291
00:45:40.680 --> 00:45:41.010
Mili Avital: Because that's.

292
00:45:45.420 --> 00:45:45.840
Liron Unreich: Why.

293
00:45:50.850 --> 00:46:01.020
Liron Unreich: i'm Okay, I was a small, something I didn't notice during during my time of doing the work and again this is interviewing.

294
00:46:01.440 --> 00:46:09.690
Liron Unreich: I would say, dozens and dozens of people and usually in the beginning, when we were trying to get this project up and running, we were trying to ask the same questions.

295
00:46:10.080 --> 00:46:16.170
Liron Unreich: For survivors, eventually, of course, none of it worked and and it wasn't it wasn't something that was successful but.

296
00:46:16.800 --> 00:46:24.330
Liron Unreich: What I did learn is that people who had a shared experience, for example, and tourism start or there were survivors that went to Auschwitz, at the same time.

297
00:46:24.810 --> 00:46:34.500
Liron Unreich: Usually the story is matched and they would match it in a way that wasn't always if you gradually check somebody's biography and their time at the camp.

298
00:46:34.830 --> 00:46:41.940
Liron Unreich: Some of the things that they've described and so we're not really at the camp, but they were more of the famous iconography of the place at the time.

299
00:46:42.690 --> 00:46:52.650
Liron Unreich: So I don't know if that answers the question, but this idea, but that person would still be convinced that is their memory of the event, and this is what they have seen even though.

300
00:46:53.340 --> 00:47:06.870
Liron Unreich: Most likely what they have seen as their memories a collection of pictures stories and then their personal experience interjected inside and that i've seen firsthand a few times with with many survivors.

301
00:47:09.180 --> 00:47:17.580
Mili Avital: yeah I mean I think that's exactly what we're dealing with with the fact that it is it's dynamic, even though there is an emotional truth, which is a fact, but.

302
00:47:18.240 --> 00:47:26.400
Mili Avital: Yes, but the details can be dynamic and this is a question from Jeremy and this is maybe more for Roi and.

303
00:47:27.090 --> 00:47:38.820
Mili Avital: Just Sephardic communities in Israel have inherited trauma from the Inquisition, or the explosive expulsion from Arab countries, or is it inherited trauma unique to ashkenazi Israelis so interesting.

304
00:47:39.120 --> 00:47:50.550
Roy Wol: You know I should have mentioned thanks for the question but I only lived in Tel Aviv when until I was six months old which creates complication for me, I can speak more for the Turkish Sephardic experience.

305
00:47:50.910 --> 00:47:55.560
Mili Avital: or or just in general about the Sephardic experience in the.

306
00:47:55.560 --> 00:48:02.970
Roy Wol: Sephardic community in Turkey, the Spanish Inquisition that story always and always a share and it's really interesting because.

307
00:48:03.720 --> 00:48:15.300
Roy Wol: I think now we must be a little less than 9000 people and I went to a jury school any stumble the only one and yeah the Spanish Inquisition story was always always talked about and.

308
00:48:16.200 --> 00:48:26.490
Roy Wol: especially through the Latino stories the Latino songs and the Latino experiences, but there's certainly a disconnect between the older generation and the younger generation.

309
00:48:27.900 --> 00:48:38.160
Roy Wol: I don't know why I don't have an answer to this but, but for some reason the Latino experience is kind of for the by the youth it's okay not anymore use, but when I was younger millennials.

310
00:48:39.930 --> 00:48:56.250
Roy Wol: The Latino language was kind of like made a little bit fun have to be very honest it wasn't like something that was okay culturally is important but it's also was kind of like a joke actually within the Youth at the time that I was young, I can speak for the entire entire school and.

311
00:48:57.480 --> 00:49:00.000
Roy Wol: But um I don't know if that answers it but.

312
00:49:01.020 --> 00:49:04.710
Mili Avital: Well it's certainly there's there's no doubt that.

313
00:49:06.060 --> 00:49:16.680
Mili Avital: The both cultures have carry some something with them, except that the whole cost is obviously more recent and more has a clear narrative.

314
00:49:17.880 --> 00:49:22.560
Mili Avital: And if somebody was asking if you use the term barcode intentionally.

315
00:49:23.160 --> 00:49:31.680
Roy Wol: This on that question, I will answer that I just wanted to add one more thing with regards to the question you asked before it's really interesting when the law opened up, I don't know if.

316
00:49:32.700 --> 00:49:40.590
Roy Wol: Our American audiences know about this, but there's a law that opened up for Sephardic Jews, to be able to get their Spanish citizenships to claiming Inquisition.

317
00:49:40.890 --> 00:49:52.830
Roy Wol: When that opened up there was even more of an embracing of that heritage which, which was which isn't story in itself, you know that's something to be mentioned, and so the bark within yes, I mean.

318
00:49:53.850 --> 00:50:00.120
Roy Wol: I hope it there was no disrespect I understand that it's a very sensitive subject, you know, for me the way I see it, is that.

319
00:50:01.140 --> 00:50:06.150
You know it's it's it's a form of expression from my end of insensitivity you know the inhumane.

320
00:50:07.440 --> 00:50:11.670
Mili Avital: Is that our heritage went through so yeah, it is shocking when we say that.

321
00:50:11.940 --> 00:50:14.460
Roy Wol: i'm sorry that put it so you know that.

322
00:50:14.910 --> 00:50:17.310
Liron Unreich: I thought it was an excellent description, I mean.

323
00:50:18.120 --> 00:50:22.140
Roy Wol: Because it is inhumane, you know it's very robotic and horrible so yeah.

324
00:50:22.320 --> 00:50:26.370
Mili Avital: It is it's it's honest because that's what it was then.

325
00:50:28.590 --> 00:50:32.700
Mili Avital: And there's a an important question from Janet about.

326
00:50:34.620 --> 00:50:52.200
Mili Avital: The question is, is this concept of memory modification used clinically in trauma work with patients to change the emotional charge of memory and that's probably the most relevant question in terms of even the effects of the ripple project, you know how, how can we use this to heal.

327
00:50:54.240 --> 00:51:14.430
Daniela Schiller: Many of the existing therapies, regardless of the scientific aspect, so I have developed to change memories in this way independently many forms of therapies, they do work on reactivating the memory and then having going through the memory in a safe environment as in to update the memory.

328
00:51:15.600 --> 00:51:26.760
Daniela Schiller: But that developed independently by therapist and trial and error and seeing what works and then environmental science discovered the neurobiological level.

329
00:51:27.900 --> 00:51:38.040
Daniela Schiller: indications that in the brain that when you activate the memory it undergoes a process, the molecular and cellular process and then these two approaches merged.

330
00:51:38.490 --> 00:51:48.930
Daniela Schiller: And now the idea is that therapist will take existing therapies and revise them, knowing the scientific mechanism of it.

331
00:51:49.410 --> 00:51:56.760
Daniela Schiller: This is what we're working on now there's collaborations between scientists and therapies, that there was a lot of interest in.

332
00:51:57.180 --> 00:52:14.730
Daniela Schiller: Many therapists suggested that this is what they were doing all along, so I think it was a really remarkable merging of two fields that supposed to talk more together, but that was a very unifying aspect of it if people got it from different points.

333
00:52:15.390 --> 00:52:24.690
Mili Avital: which makes it probably a very useful tool is that I mean it's something that could be could could do you think that you could replace a medicine, for example.

334
00:52:26.850 --> 00:52:35.490
Daniela Schiller: I hope so, I think I want choose one I think all of their multiple methods it depends on the memory depends on the person.

335
00:52:36.120 --> 00:52:46.530
Daniela Schiller: You could we activate the memory and even do a CT you know electric shock, so people have done that you can take a drug, you can combine it with.

336
00:52:47.040 --> 00:52:58.920
Daniela Schiller: behavioral interference that what have mentioned, of introducing positive information, I think it depends on the person, have to be personally Taylor mm hmm.

337
00:53:00.000 --> 00:53:15.330
Mili Avital: Well it's definitely I think it's something that we all carry in us in one way or another, which is the need to to deal with a memory, and I know that i'm involved in a project as an actress where I am involved to play.

338
00:53:16.920 --> 00:53:21.900
Mili Avital: A Holocaust survivor who is dealing with her ptsd.

339
00:53:23.550 --> 00:53:31.830
Mili Avital: On a daily basis and it's really an examination of what is it, how is it affecting our present so it's not really what happened but it's more.

340
00:53:32.190 --> 00:53:49.380
Mili Avital: How do we, how does it make us how did affect our choices in life, and does it affect our choices and can we change our choices in life by doing so is there anything else you run that you would like to invite the audience to know about your project.

341
00:53:50.070 --> 00:53:59.100
Liron Unreich: For me, for me, the point of this is that, and this was related to the previous question is that I hope that each one of these stories, the second they're all come out.

342
00:53:59.610 --> 00:54:06.300
Liron Unreich: As Roy said, this is series one, we hope, will have series, two and three and four, and will not might not be about the Holocaust per se.

343
00:54:06.810 --> 00:54:14.310
Liron Unreich: But each one of these stories has given me a tool to deal with my own issues and things that I find very difficult than life.

344
00:54:14.940 --> 00:54:28.410
Liron Unreich: And the idea is that if if those if that could relay that with my God given talents to somebody else to use what each one of these characters brings to the table that that's really all I want to accomplish here.

345
00:54:32.850 --> 00:54:37.350
Mili Avital: Anything else you'd like to say Roy to our audience.

346
00:54:37.590 --> 00:54:48.600
Roy Wol: yeah absolutely just wanted to say thank you for taking the time to coming coming to listen to this for sure, and if you have any questions about the projects, please reach out to us, I believe, are you just posted.

347
00:54:49.500 --> 00:54:59.280
Roy Wol: The website and flank and ripple project, we also have an instagram I have to obviously say that as a producer, if you want to follow it please do and it's an open door.

348
00:55:00.330 --> 00:55:04.050
Roy Wol: You know, you can ask us anything about the project if you have questions.

349
00:55:05.070 --> 00:55:16.170
Roy Wol: And just want to also thank the Museum of course and chameleon Daniel and, obviously, there are no doubt Ari and very finally also brooklyn council for the arts we're also continuously supporting us.

350
00:55:18.570 --> 00:55:29.880
Mili Avital: Sure, and and and you know, in it, is it is you know it is really true that as trauma connects us It also builds us as a Community, and I mean.

351
00:55:30.660 --> 00:55:38.970
Mili Avital: it's so relevant today as in the George in the way we're still in the shadow of the George florid case and, but it is so.

352
00:55:39.780 --> 00:55:49.440
Mili Avital: important to know that there is a connection between all of us and the ripple effect that you're talking about is the ripple effect again it's horizontal and vertical.

353
00:55:50.010 --> 00:56:03.090
Mili Avital: And if we all just remember it we we will deepen our empathy towards each other, because we will know we're all suffering, either from our own pain or from someone else's pain, but but that's what makes us human and.

354
00:56:04.500 --> 00:56:10.110
Mili Avital: Is there anything else daniella that you'd like to say about this project and what it means to you.

355
00:56:11.340 --> 00:56:12.030
Daniela Schiller: Before we say.

356
00:56:13.110 --> 00:56:13.560
Daniela Schiller: I think.

357
00:56:16.140 --> 00:56:17.310
Daniela Schiller: In emphasizes.

358
00:56:18.630 --> 00:56:28.980
Daniela Schiller: How memory echoes in our own life and across cultures and across generations, I know that the topic of changing memories is.

359
00:56:29.700 --> 00:56:38.910
Daniela Schiller: very emotional for people, because we think if our memories are not accurate, who are we, but I think what he does is only.

360
00:56:39.600 --> 00:56:48.150
Daniela Schiller: forces us to know what is memory and how we deal with it in different contexts, so, for example, in the context of eyewitness testimony.

361
00:56:48.750 --> 00:56:55.320
Daniela Schiller: it's unreliable and then we would want on relying on recorded evidence, but in our personal lives.

362
00:56:56.070 --> 00:57:08.610
Daniela Schiller: The defect and the semantics are scaffolds around which we reconstruct the details and the emotions, the fact that they are dynamic is healthy and adaptive.

363
00:57:09.180 --> 00:57:26.910
Daniela Schiller: And, in a way it's it makes us more liberated not tied into our own personal story, so I think we can start thinking about memory more of an artist's in the way we do with our own stories though we're still trying to figure out what it means.

364
00:57:27.420 --> 00:57:35.940
Mili Avital: that's that's great because, if we were ever bothered by the fact that we don't remember whether important things are not important things that we can actually.

365
00:57:36.540 --> 00:57:48.990
Mili Avital: Take from what you just said, the fact that it is a healthy sign of us moving through life and maybe adding more and more on to memories so dynamic memory is a good thing.

366
00:57:50.280 --> 00:57:50.790
Mili Avital: Absolutely.

367
00:57:51.060 --> 00:57:51.660
Absolutely.

368
00:57:52.920 --> 00:57:54.840
Mili Avital: Well, thank you guys so much.

369
00:57:55.560 --> 00:57:56.160
Mili Avital: Well, I.

370
00:57:57.480 --> 00:57:59.100
Liron Unreich: mean the way milly went first meeting.

371
00:58:03.750 --> 00:58:05.280
Liron Unreich: Extraordinary this was.

372
00:58:05.580 --> 00:58:08.160
Mili Avital: So honored to be here Thank you so much.

373
00:58:08.490 --> 00:58:08.940
Liron Unreich: Thank you.

374
00:58:10.020 --> 00:58:10.860
Liron Unreich: Danielle android.

375
00:58:11.820 --> 00:58:17.250
Ari Goldstein: And I just want to add are things from museums fascinating to listen to you guys and I was thinking that.

376
00:58:17.610 --> 00:58:28.800
Ari Goldstein: I mean for so long, the work of Holocaust museums Holocaust educators, has been all about survivor testimony and it still is, and it always will be, but we're now, at a moment in which there are fewer survivors and it's.

377
00:58:29.010 --> 00:58:39.540
Ari Goldstein: The torches sort of been passed to children and grandchildren, so what you're doing is exactly the kind of work that's going to propel Holocaust memory and education forward so it's it's exciting for me to.

378
00:58:39.900 --> 00:58:44.130
Ari Goldstein: Have a window into into your work today, and I know a lot of folks in the audience feel the same way.

379
00:58:44.670 --> 00:58:46.020
Mili Avital: and hopefully we can do a lot more.

380
00:58:46.620 --> 00:58:47.850
Liron Unreich: Absolutely yeah.

381
00:58:48.150 --> 00:58:52.020
Daniela Schiller: yeah sorry we didn't get to all the questions, there are some wonderful questions.

382
00:58:53.160 --> 00:59:04.890
Ari Goldstein: And I do want to mention that everything we do with the museum is made possible through donor support so For those of you watching who have supported the museum Thank you and we hope the rest of you will consider supporting the museum a for able.

383
00:59:05.340 --> 00:59:13.380
Ari Goldstein: And I mentioned that today's program is sponsored in part to the battery park city authority Community partnership and we have another program in that series that is actually very relevant.

384
00:59:13.620 --> 00:59:25.530
Ari Goldstein: To the conversation today on may 19 we are bringing together clinical psychologists from the Jewish African American and native American Communities to look at inherited trauma through a psychological lens across.

385
00:59:26.580 --> 00:59:41.640
Ari Goldstein: communal differences, so the conversation continues, please check out the ripple project via the links in the chat and we'll send out an email tomorrow as well, some fun info and we do hope you guys join us, I mean IP for another another discussion.

386
00:59:42.510 --> 00:59:43.920
Ari Goldstein: And just one last thing already.

387
00:59:44.070 --> 00:59:47.670
Mili Avital: Is there is there a way to watch this recorded for those who missed.

388
00:59:48.090 --> 00:59:50.640
Mili Avital: But also want to send it to their friends.

389
00:59:51.810 --> 00:59:53.340
Ari Goldstein: yeah absolutely well will include the.

390
00:59:53.340 --> 01:00:04.350
Ari Goldstein: Recording an email tomorrow and it'll be on the museum to YouTube channel and for lauren and Roy to see the all of herbal projects film work when it's done, we should just stay posted on your website.

391
01:00:04.440 --> 01:00:08.520
Liron Unreich: Absolute social Roi will be the one announcing to the world, I have no doubt.

392
01:00:08.880 --> 01:00:14.850
Roy Wol: yeah yeah we have a beautiful impact campaign that will hopefully for for many, many years we'll see so.

393
01:00:15.270 --> 01:00:17.970
Ari Goldstein: We will be waiting eagerly thanks again everyone.

394
01:00:18.090 --> 01:00:19.620
Liron Unreich: Thank you, everybody have a.