Panel Discussion about the Film “Soros”

This program’s original recording transcript is below. This transcription was created automatically during a live program so may contain inaccurate transcriptions of some words.

Sydney Yaeger: hi everyone, my name is Sydney Yaeger and i'm the public programs coordinator at the Museum of Jewish heritage of living memorial to the Holocaust.

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Sydney Yaeger: i'm honored to introduce today's program, which is a discussion about the film Soros.

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Sydney Yaeger: joining us today is priscilla co and the producer of the film of the director Jesse is having a little bit of technical difficulties so we're hoping that he will be able to join us a little bit later.

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Sydney Yaeger: And moderating the discussion is JESSICA Shaw, the host of ew live on sirius xm.

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Sydney Yaeger: During the discussion, please feel free to share questions in the zoom Q amp a box and we'll get to as many as we can, during the hour.

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Sydney Yaeger: This program is being recorded and the video will be available tomorrow on the museum's YouTube channel Thank you all so much for being here and i'm now going to hand things over to JESSICA.

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Jessica Shaw: Thank you Sydney and welcome to everyone i'm so happy to be here to talk about Soros I assume you all have seen it if not it's a you can rent it.

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Jessica Shaw: On Amazon etc various other places, obviously, the name George Soros evokes all sorts of feelings all over the spectrum and and some of the world's reactions to him speak to a far.

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Jessica Shaw: Larger issue than the dislike of one individual I have so many questions i'm so happy to get to talk to priscilla about this film and I would end and hopefully Jesse dylan as well.

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Jessica Shaw: If you have questions I encourage you to put them in the chat and Sydney will be passing those along to me and i'll do my best to get to all of the questions, but for now welcome producer priscilla Cohen.

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Priscilla Cohen: Thank you for having me i'm really thrilled to be here grateful to have a conversation about about George and about the film.

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Jessica Shaw: i'm so excited to dig into this with you, first I want to just start what what was you know you have George Soros is willing to be interviewed for this film What was your plan of what you wanted to accomplish when you set out to make this.

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Priscilla Cohen: So I think we have to back up a little bit because George was not necessarily willing to you know, to talk about himself and that's one thing about George that perhaps comes through with the film he considers himself the sort of wholesale person, which is the person way behind.

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Priscilla Cohen: front line here and so there's Jesse which is great to see you Jesse.

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Priscilla Cohen: will be on in a minute, thank you to the audience jesse's having some technical difficulties but he's here so i'll continue the question, then we can we can pass it over to Jesse so it was.

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Priscilla Cohen: In our work with the open society foundations that we were doing prior you know for a couple of years really trying to understand the work that they were doing, and in that work.

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Priscilla Cohen: We had the opportunity and Jesse had the opportunity to to really sit down and have these conversations with George.

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Priscilla Cohen: that no one had had prior, as I said, he is not someone who wants to be front and Center, believe it or not, this is the man at the Center of more controversy.

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Priscilla Cohen: than probably any other figure in our world, or one of them, and he really just wants to work to speak for itself so after several years of Jesse interviewing him and asking about the work.

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Priscilla Cohen: It became clear, I think, to Jesse and myself, that we, we should try to tell a story, because he was so incredibly misunderstood and i'll pass it along to Jesse and maybe you can ask the question again JESSICA.

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Jessica Shaw: Well, I just I want to pick up and ask, first of all welcome Jesse and where we're unmute yourself and then i'll tell you how happy I am see you.

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Jessica Shaw: There you go.

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Jessica Shaw: I guess, I want to just follow up on what priscilla just said about years of interviewing him When did the process of working on this film begin.

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Jesse Dylan: You know it began, I don't know after we've been working with them for a long time, like probably three or four years at least and then um you know at first we weren't going to do it, then we decided, we would do it because we had so much footage and then.

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Jesse Dylan: Then took a long time for him to agree to let us do it we've talked to him for quite a bit of time, I think that whole process, you know, took a couple of years and then it was because.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, we had been interviewing him, but we didn't have a structure for a movie that took us a long time to work out what the structure would be you know, and so it took quite a bit of time.

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Jessica Shaw: right again that was what I was curious about what when the two of you sat down or a you know, and you thought, what is our vision it's one thing to kind of tell the story of George Soros his life is absolutely fascinating.

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Jessica Shaw: And everything that he's accomplished.

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Jessica Shaw: On in multiple arenas but there's also a lot going on, he is clearly symbolic of something else to a lot of people as well, so what was it that you really wanted to explore in the documentary.

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Jesse Dylan: So you know that's truly he you know he's sort of a lightning lightning rod for.

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Jesse Dylan: You know this extreme extremism and.

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Jesse Dylan: That wasn't what we were seeing when we were doing the interviews and and sort of really getting to know his work.

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Jesse Dylan: And so I felt like it was really important for there to be something that was more of an objective view of what he what he was doing and so that took that that.

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Jesse Dylan: So what I wanted to say, with the movie was just that we could all in our own lives choose to do things that were you know, helping others we did we can't all be like Georgia, but we can all.

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Jesse Dylan: In our own ways do things that that can help and that's what we set out to do, that was the overall idea and then um and then we need to work to sort of figure out what the structure of the movie would be.

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Jessica Shaw: I there's a moment pretty early in the film, it might be the first time that he's on camera and he starts directing you Jesse.

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Jessica Shaw: And it's a very funny moment, because here you are interviewing him and he kind of turns ready said Okay, we can start by talking about my life.

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Jessica Shaw: Or we can talk about filling my philosophy or.

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Jessica Shaw: Whatever and it's um it even his doing that gave such a peek in in you know into who this man is so I would love to hear from from both of you what.

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Jessica Shaw: And I don't know priscilla if you were in the room, when this was happening or if it was just you know he just wants Jesse there, and with a camera or whatever, but.

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Jessica Shaw: Tell us like given take us behind the scenes what's it like to talk to him and to get stories out of him because, like priscilla personal said earlier he's not he's not the most like give me press you know turn the camera on me kind of.

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Jesse Dylan: Guy well you know, fortunately, for me, I i've had a lot of experience with people like that, so you know, I think that you.

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Jesse Dylan: You that was one of the first interviews, we did with him, so I think that what you're seeing, there is a guy who just has a lot want has something to say.

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Jesse Dylan: And it's just going to say it, and so you know, usually with people when we interview them and they're sort of in that headspace you serve them, let them exhaust themselves and then.

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Jesse Dylan: Then you can start really asking them questions, and so you know he's he's very much what you see on on camera there he's very, very intelligent he's funny charming when he wants to do, but you can also be super tough What was your thought priscilla.

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Priscilla Cohen: So what's interesting about that moment, is you're seeing, I think the way his brain and his mind works, which is that.

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Priscilla Cohen: You know and that's obviously what probably made him such a brilliant investor and made him, you know, one of the.

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Priscilla Cohen: Arguably, the great philanthropists as controversial as it is.

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Priscilla Cohen: Is that always holding that duality so you saying okay wait, we can talk about my my philosophy we collect my thoughts complicate We talked my my light will get let's start with my life, and I think what was.

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Priscilla Cohen: so helpful in that moment, although we didn't know it till years later, is that actually helped provide the structure for the film because.

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Priscilla Cohen: If we're we were working back from this idea Why is he so you know kind of reviled and and Why is he at the Center of all this controversy and particularly when we think about anti semitism and and issues.

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Priscilla Cohen: Around the Holocaust, etc, and so that contextualizing where he came from to.

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Priscilla Cohen: was really the way to help frame the story, because his his backstory his childhood is so kind of terrifying and disturbing and I think it's very important that people understand.

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Priscilla Cohen: This man as a young boy growing up where he did in in Hungary, in the context of World War Two and then, of course, with the invasion of the Russians, so I think that that was the framework for us that really helped us with the structure.

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Jessica Shaw: yeah I mean let's let's jump in and talk about his childhood, I found that stuff fascinating tell me about that and, like you said he's he's in Hungary and in the 40s and he is.

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Jessica Shaw: As obviously in the Holocaust is happening Jews are being killed around him, he is a he is.

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Jessica Shaw: passes, as a Christian he's he is protected, and therefore it doesn't wear us yellow star does not, no one knows he's Jewish.

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Jessica Shaw: And I was curious how you got I mean there's a lot of really interesting footage What was it like researching that time in Hungary and that time from him.

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Jesse Dylan: You know it's it's it's tough, you know to sort of get that perspective, you know it's very hard to understand anything about the Holocaust at this point, you know, and you know he's.

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Jesse Dylan: he's a you know.

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Jesse Dylan: I should say it's very hard to understand why it happened, you know what the what the reasons are that it happened because we can certainly understand what did happen.

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Jesse Dylan: And I think that when he was growing up, you know i'm not sure as a young child he sort of understood all of that complexity, but he.

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Jesse Dylan: He I think it had to deal with things that were that were unimaginable you know, a couple of times you know, a couple very random things you know one.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, was during the Holocaust and the other was when the Russians came in and took it over with towards a period that lasted much longer, but I think that those things.

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Jesse Dylan: Because he had such an unusual father, the father, you know, had a certain perspective that that I think he imparted to George and then.

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Jesse Dylan: I think our challenge was to try and figure out how to get footage of a lot of those things in Hungary that that didn't have much footage so so it was it was very tricky to sort of figure out how to tell that story.

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Jessica Shaw: yeah.

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Priscilla Cohen: And I would say, also.

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Priscilla Cohen: Again, I think.

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Priscilla Cohen: One of the one of the historians that we interviewed in the in the Stephen hawking really talked a lot about we don't know you know it's in in.

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Priscilla Cohen: In retrospect we all wish we could do certain things but but to I think what we're trying to convey with the footage was.

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Priscilla Cohen: How do, how does one, how do you react, how do you survive a catastrophic you know event in world history what.

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Priscilla Cohen: And how, how does, how does each individual's you know how do people going to going to respond and survive, and I think.

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Priscilla Cohen: With Jesse was you know talking about TV or his father was extraordinary influence on George and hopefully that comes through in the film.

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Priscilla Cohen: and doing kind of what it what it takes to just keep the family, safe, but at the same time, TV door, there was the story about passing out cigarettes, which.

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Jessica Shaw: You tell that story, because I was just going to ask you about that next minute it's an extraordinary story and so clearly when you, and if the story does not come from George in this in in the film.

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Jessica Shaw: And, but maybe you can just relay that a little bit in case anyone needs a reminder, because it's clearly something that informed his thought process yeah.

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Priscilla Cohen: Jesse you want to talk about the.

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Jesse Dylan: Issues um so you know when George was you know.

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Jesse Dylan: small child I guess.

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Jesse Dylan: Probably you know about 10 you know he and his father went to a store to buy cigarettes and when he came out he gave all the cigarettes away to Jews right, which was a dangerous thing to do, and he did it.

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Jesse Dylan: Because the father did it because you know George asked him said well why would you give away these secrets was so hard for us to get the most are dangerous to get them.

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Jesse Dylan: And the end he said because I want them to know that, after the war that that there were good people here in hungry good non Jews here and hungry.

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Jesse Dylan: And so, he was still concealing himself as a Jewish person, but he had the foresight to think about what comes after a lot of these things, and I think that that's.

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Jesse Dylan: that's a very, very powerful thing, especially for now, you know the times we're living in now where we have the rise of extremism again, and you know it's like, why is that rise of extremism and populism.

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Jesse Dylan: occurring in this time, you know, maybe it's maybe it's because we've you know forgotten how hard it was to open all these borders, you know so that it's easy to close to them again but but.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, it certainly is problematic, you know when we think about what we want our societies to be like in the future.

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Priscilla Cohen: yeah and he was a young young child that's important, and I think that that again the ability to have.

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Priscilla Cohen: Foresight for the father to be thinking Okay, whatever was going on, and we have no idea obviously what the father was thinking, but this idea that there will be a day this.

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Priscilla Cohen: war will be over, and how are we going to mend How do we move forward, you know we don't want to keep staying in these horrible like what.

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Priscilla Cohen: And again to me that becomes the beginning of of some things, but she discovered later around an open society where.

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Priscilla Cohen: you're going to have to live amongst people that you do not agree with, and of course we see that how difficult that is.

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Priscilla Cohen: And oftentimes it does end up in war, you see it across the world, you see it, you know you saw it generations after and.

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Priscilla Cohen: But that's that's the question you know how can human beings who revile each other figure out how they're going to live together afterwards it's a fundamental human question it's a really complicated one.

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Jessica Shaw: yeah absolutely any any talks about in the film you talk about after I think it's even in an interview with him, he talks about after Nazi ISM and communism, there has to be something else.

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Jessica Shaw: And again, there has to be an open society there has to be and then it's it's it's a pretty amazing moment he has this look on his face and he said that it's democracy and he's just he starts beaming and it's.

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Jessica Shaw: You know it's it's it's kind of a devastating moment, because here is someone who was born and and went through I mean there is his mother was was raped by by communists soldiers who can.

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Jessica Shaw: Post Nazis, I mean there's there were, it was war on war and violation on violation and then he has this moment, did you get a sense of that he really linked, though, having his childhood and his his upbringing directly linked to what he wanted to create in the future.

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Jesse Dylan: I did, I mean I certainly it took it took years to get there in the work that we did with him, but yeah you know, I think that the nail on the hit the nail on the head is.

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Jesse Dylan: That these ideologies Nazi ISM Communism both were flawed because they they ultimately you know, nobody had any choice in what they were doing, and so what he was looking for when he thinks about an open society is.

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Jesse Dylan: How do you deliver the most amount of freedom to the most amount of people, how do you make sure that everybody.

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Jesse Dylan: has a voice, you know i'm not even sure George agrees with a lot of the voices, but he is in passionate about them having the ability to.

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Jesse Dylan: To express themselves, I think that that's that's you can trace it, you know you can trace it pretty clearly from Human Rights Watch to South Africa to.

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Jesse Dylan: To you know each each little thing that he was when he was learning about how to affect these these you know this change that that is desirable and.

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Jesse Dylan: I think that the hard part of it is saying, well, we don't know what this should be the people should decide for themselves.

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Jesse Dylan: That can be misconstrued as as if you're meddling, which is very strange sort of concept but, but I think the thing is, is that you know he believes everybody should have a seat at the table and that that comes from his his.

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Jesse Dylan: You know his experiences.

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Priscilla Cohen: And i'd like to add a little bit to that which is that I mean again not having lived through any of that what it must have been to live through two devastating periods like you said JESSICA right so it's it's we're dealing with Nazis and number dealing with stolen right so.

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Priscilla Cohen: He then, of course, goes on, and he gets out of there, and he goes to London and he you know becomes this unbelievably successful driven.

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Priscilla Cohen: businessman I think an early on, you needs Karl Popper, which of course is that foundation for an open society, but I think it's not till later I mean all of those things, perhaps we're brewing.

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Priscilla Cohen: But I think it isn't really till he has been going going going at this pounding rate of being this extremely successful investor where there's suddenly a moment where.

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Priscilla Cohen: The rest of, in my opinion, this is not George my opinion, the rest of his early life catches up with him.

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Priscilla Cohen: And there's like you know, as everyone has some sort of a midlife crisis right and we have them throughout our life.

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Priscilla Cohen: Where it's like okay now what am I now what you know what is what is my personal responsibility, but for sure.

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Priscilla Cohen: All of the ideas around working towards an open society have got to be from the way that he grew up, I mean you can't you don't you know we take any would always say to us so many of us take democracy for granted.

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Priscilla Cohen: And we cannot do that as we as we've seen in the last many, many years you know what what's happened because it can it's a fleeting thing it's an idea and an open society even bigger than a democracy, something you have to constantly work up.

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Jesse Dylan: And you know it also gets it any we talked about this a little bit in the movie.

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Jesse Dylan: about the edges of our moral responsibility you know we're talking about who are you know you can say well you know I want to protect people in my.

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Jesse Dylan: My family, I want to protect people on my block, I want to protect people in my city, I want to protect my country or the world, you know where where does the edge of our moral responsibility lie and and that's a fundamental complex question for each of us to decide.

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Jessica Shaw: yeah absolutely i'm curious and it's um some some member of the audience mentioned this as well, what when you talk priscilla just now about how he has this moment and and in the film he talks about he's like.

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Jessica Shaw: People are kind of boring me like you know I want I wanted something clear he he wanted to something to have meaning and impact and.

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Jessica Shaw: You know, he described as a kind of midlife crisis and he embarks on on all of these Philip even more philanthropic things that he was doing and really getting involved.

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Jessica Shaw: i'm curious how much of that he felt was informed by being not just not his childhood, specifically, but by being Jewish and I think that's a question that people are asking in the chat what what was what was then, and what is now his relationship to his Jewish identity.

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Jesse Dylan: Well, he can you know if you're Jewish you know you can't escape it it's going to be around you, no matter what, but I think that yeah and I never really talked to George specifically about his feelings of Israel but but i'm not sure that.

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Jesse Dylan: i'm not, I think that he feels like we need to help everybody and everybody at least it's to be heard in the town Square, so I think he had done if it is very much as Jewish but but i'm not i'm not if we roll that into Israel i'm not sure you know how he feels about Israel.

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Priscilla Cohen: Right and I know it's not about it's not even about Israel really think that it's it, you know when you think about what are the fundamentals of any any religion is really about.

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Priscilla Cohen: Really, protecting human rights in the end, right or being good good people, and so I think it's hard we didn't we did not really get into those really deep conversations about.

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Priscilla Cohen: About Judaism, but he definitely identifies as Jewish his children everybody in his family, I mean he he's you know he is he's Jewish and he that means he's proud of that, so I don't know if that answers your question.

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Jessica Shaw: yeah no I was just curious if it's it's it's interesting because I hope he has pride in being Jewish, I think it was doing it, I think about tikkun olam of the very Jewish idea of repairing the world.

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Jessica Shaw: That you know, hopefully, many people share, but I know that it's a fundamental.

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Jessica Shaw: tenet of Judaism as well.

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Jessica Shaw: It is interesting, because I think that, and I want to get into a little bit there's so much heat for him, and that is very much to to me.

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Jessica Shaw: grounded in just a real virulent anti semitism, so I guess what was your perspective and here you know, obviously you've known him or worked with him, etc, when you could step back, just as as documentarians, how do you see the world's the negative aspects of the world's reaction to him.

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Jesse Dylan: Well, I think that he, I think that in the beginning of his philanthropy he was concentrated so much just on doing the work and he never had any press that I think that he had no idea that that.

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Jesse Dylan: It would sort of bloom up into what it, it has an eye, I think it takes on a life of its own, you know.

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Jesse Dylan: Anti Semitism is real, sometimes I wonder why it's real but it, but it really is real like why we we people don't like the Jews.

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Jesse Dylan: You know.

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Jesse Dylan: It seems like a very strange position you know, having spent a lot of time and in Israel, and you know i'm not i'm not sure why that is, I and.

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Jesse Dylan: But I agree with you that it does you know a lot of times organism, you know countries need somebody to hate and he fits the bill, you know he's very easy for him to fit the bill so so.

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Jesse Dylan: You know the i'm not even sure it's about him as much as it is about well you know we're having I mean if you take hungry, for instance, we have all these problems here, but you know what they're not our fault they're george's Soros his fault, he did it, you know and.

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Jesse Dylan: And it's a very unfair thing which I think has very little to do with him, you know.

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Priscilla Cohen: I you know I also think it's interesting to think about it, we.

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Priscilla Cohen: You know the journalist tells us in the film that that.

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Priscilla Cohen: The Lyndon LaRouche so there's a moment in time, where he becomes a really great scapegoat and there's a you know concerted effort to make him an enemy, and I think we have to think about well why him and I think it's because again.

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Priscilla Cohen: From my perspective, Mr Soros does not, you cannot necessarily you know predict his his stance on things, or what he might you know support it's really about.

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Priscilla Cohen: It can be controversial, so he may be going, you know, he may be he'll be challenging.

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Priscilla Cohen: Conventional something that might feel conventional or American I think there's in that in the story around George Bush.

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Priscilla Cohen: jr about what was happening there and so suddenly if if people on a one political side in this case it is, it is on the right to say Okay, we need to sort of start to build.

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Priscilla Cohen: A case against liberal progressive people George is the perfect person so, then you know they're there becomes this he becomes the guy and then it's just he was saying, early on.

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Priscilla Cohen: he's not he has not been, although in his later life, he has more reflection he's not afraid to take a stand about things that he believes in.

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Priscilla Cohen: Whether you agree, or whether I agree, he and at the foundation of it for him, it is this guiding principle of as Jesse said earlier, protecting more the most freedoms possible having more people having a voice and it doesn't always sit well right with the kind of conventional public.

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Priscilla Cohen: point of view and so becomes controversial that idea, and then the idea that he also is.

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Priscilla Cohen: Not front and Center he does not give interviews so now it's very easy to he's the guy doing this and he's the guy doing that and, in many cases.

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Priscilla Cohen: it's not him doing anything he will support people that feel left out and wanting those people to have a voice and i'm not sure that that's always a popular stance right and it always.

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Jesse Dylan: worked out, I mean, especially with groups like throwing or you know, in Europe, he supports you know.

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Jesse Dylan: Totally spacing the name of the group see supports in Europe, but it's like those those things are people who are have nobody to speak for them.

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Priscilla Cohen: And maybe don't know I think just talking about you know so.

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Jesse Dylan: So they and and the Roma is a very different culture, you know we spent a lot of time with them.

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Jesse Dylan: and

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Jesse Dylan: They may express themselves totally differently than than other people, and I think that he was once you know considered you know, like the row row, the Roma or their own anger and.

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Jesse Dylan: I think that always weighs on his mind that there needs to be somebody that makes it possible for those groups to speak for themselves, you know.

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Priscilla Cohen: yeah I think the Roman is a great as a great example because that's a group of people coming from all over the diaspora right they're coming from everywhere, and some of them, of course, are Jewish as well, but but they're feeling like.

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Priscilla Cohen: they're being left out of society, you know they're being they're completely marginalized Jesse and I did some work on you know find you know, speaking with with so many.

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Priscilla Cohen: folks you know all over all over Europe and Eastern Europe and and it's you know it's not until recently have then been able to come together as a group.

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Priscilla Cohen: And in this time I think we're there a lot of voices saying we need to have a voice that work is incredibly important so again, I think it's really about it.

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Priscilla Cohen: yeah it's complicated Georgia george's way of operating and thinking is complex and it and and that goes back to a lot of his his core value, which is critical thinking which is at the heart of.

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Priscilla Cohen: Really, all of the work that he supports starts with education, it for him it's about education.

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Priscilla Cohen: We need to be educated and we need to be thinking, and that is for everyone around the world, and those are the really early things when you look at South Africa.

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Priscilla Cohen: And that early work, I mean that's really at the core of everything, and if you have people that are not act do not have access to education, which is a fundamental human right.

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Priscilla Cohen: You know, we get into trouble because people can't really understand what is their truth, what is really going on in their societies, and so you know, and we have a world where we have inequities around education now, obviously.

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Jesse Dylan: yeah sorry.

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Jessica Shaw: Go ahead JESSICA.

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Jesse Dylan: Well, just going to say you know um.

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Jesse Dylan: You know this idea that holly brings up that all Jews are liberals and leftist I don't think George probably would identify as a leftist.

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Jesse Dylan: I think that he he doesn't think of himself within the within that structure, I think that he's looking at each individual problem.

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Jesse Dylan: As with a critical critical thinking at the heart of it and then deciding how he might assist the people who are involved in that you know, so I don't know the D identifies with either party in America.

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Jessica Shaw: Yet yeah it's right and yet some people who who dislike him very much identify him with you know, and that that is it's so.

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Jessica Shaw: it's it's always you know what I find his story.

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Jessica Shaw: so inextricably linked, unfortunately, to how others view him I think some people can go through life Bill Gates is mentioned in the film about she can do all sorts of things and.

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Jessica Shaw: People will you know it's it's kind of taken at face value what he does George Soros can do something like priscilla mentioned and and fund education and immediately there's that.

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Jessica Shaw: There among among some a very I would argue anti Semitic thought of there's this there there's this rich Jewish person pulling the strings.

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Jessica Shaw: You know this this.

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Jessica Shaw: trump did this viral you know that is for centuries has been.

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Jessica Shaw: You know, has been brought up about Jewish people.

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Priscilla Cohen: I think that's a great point JESSICA, because I feel like when we think about those.

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Priscilla Cohen: Those tropes and we think about anti semitism and we think about okay money greed and this sort of elitist of edge, you know of education okay that's what.

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Priscilla Cohen: You know the anti I think holly's asked about that what anti Semites thing right is that it's it's the control of the world.

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Priscilla Cohen: And I think that that that's also probably at the heart of a lot of this it's it's again it goes back to what are your what are your values as a society if you don't really value.

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Priscilla Cohen: The idea of education or having a voice, and of course now in this country, and probably all over the world, the question of what is education and what gets to get taught and we're you know we're in an even a more extreme time now um but but.

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Jesse Dylan: I think, which which does not have critical thinking at its core, it has polarization of what the.

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Jesse Dylan: textbooks are going to be.

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Jessica Shaw: Just it doesn't even have evolution and it's cool.

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Priscilla Cohen: I mean and and we're being asked to take those things out, of course, and so, again I think what's terrifying to think about is what happens if you have societies that let go of some kind of critical thinking some objective understanding of fact.

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Priscilla Cohen: Science, or whatever you know what happens.

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Priscilla Cohen: And and we're obviously seeing it in a very terrifying way here now in in you know, in the United States, you.

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Jesse Dylan: Know like where we're mandated to.

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Jesse Dylan: Teach both sides of the Holocaust, you know totally ridiculous.

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Priscilla Cohen: But the other side of the Holocaust i'd like.

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Priscilla Cohen: You know I mean, I think this audience, what is the other side, there is no other side.

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Jesse Dylan: So you know you also see that now happening to Bill Gates who's given away billion, you know over $10 billion.

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Jesse Dylan: And as focused a lot of his efforts around vaccines and was definitely contributed to this vaccine that's making people be able to live their lives go about more normal life and he's he's hated for it, you know he's you know it's a very strange reaction, you know.

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Jessica Shaw: yeah I mean.

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Jessica Shaw: The way I, I agree with you and that's definitely been this thing oh Bill Gates is trying to put you know.

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Jessica Shaw: chips, and all of our brands and everything.

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Jessica Shaw: But, but to me it's almost in mainstream media, maybe it is dismissed as fringe whereas you have many clips of mainstream media talking, I mean I wanted to ask you about the Tucker Tucker carlson interview.

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Jessica Shaw: where he literally describes George Soros as quote the embodiment of the problem.

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Jessica Shaw: Tell me about well I guess first tell me about your thought process, just as filmmakers of saying we want to get someone who hates him to try.

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Jessica Shaw: To date, where this.

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Jessica Shaw: This distrust comes from.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, we we wanted, we had quite a list.

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Jesse Dylan: And you know we just did Tucker carlson was the only person who actually agreed, and I have to say he was he was a gentleman in the the interview, you know before the.

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Jesse Dylan: end.

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Jesse Dylan: I think it was important to have that try and get that perspective in you know a lot of the that but, most people wouldn't talk to us.

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Jesse Dylan: We for a while we were going to have the English brexit guy priscilla remember his name.

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Jesse Dylan: She doesn't remember his name but or she's not saying, but in any case he he.

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Jesse Dylan: He said yes and then he then it just.

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Jesse Dylan: wander around entailing nowhere, but we, we tried, you know a lot of those characters are pretty tough to get to get on camera so I appreciated that Tucker at least gave us some.

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Priscilla Cohen: Time.

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Jesse Dylan: she's saying to him not JEREMY corbyn.

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Priscilla Cohen: I want to say something about what I, and I know you know and now.

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Priscilla Cohen: I mean I we all have have probably our personal feelings, but I think what is important about.

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Priscilla Cohen: unpacking and really trying to objectively understand why this incredible hatred of George I think this is an important point, thank you for everyone who's trying to guess the name.

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Priscilla Cohen: He says something about what Jesse alluded to earlier, you know here's a person who's acting like a sovereign going in with a lot of resource, a lot of money.

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Priscilla Cohen: Going into what some might say why Is he able to go into these different countries and support because of what he's doing, I just want the audience understand.

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Priscilla Cohen: he's not doing anything he's has the folks that he's working with kind of listening and where are some human rights abuses or where people not being heard.

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Priscilla Cohen: And though, and that becomes support for for just to get more voices, I think that everyone needs to understand that.

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Priscilla Cohen: The misconception is he's marching in there and doing all this stuff, but I think what Tucker brings up, which is important is.

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Priscilla Cohen: It feels like meddling and it feels like who is this guy to go in and you know if we all think about it, and it can happen.

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Priscilla Cohen: If if somebody who had that kind of power and money, I won't name the person, but I have something in my head that could go in and do that, and he had or she had opposing views.

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Priscilla Cohen: to human rights, how dangerous that could be so I think I think that is important point for, and I think that he makes that and I think that I think we have to make that point, because you have to understand why.

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Priscilla Cohen: Everybody hates him, but why many people hate him, but I also think.

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Priscilla Cohen: he's he's also taking a stand and that goes back to this idea of our moral responsibility if you think that people are being abused.

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Priscilla Cohen: It could be sex workers, maybe you don't agree with sex workers and getting their rights in Latin America and Africa and in the United States, or you know you know, having really fair systems around you know.

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Priscilla Cohen: People being in prison, you know unjustly there is a feeling that this is that there might be human rights abuses and you have to go in and say something, because the end of the day when you're alone.

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Priscilla Cohen: Did you do the right thing that you felt that you adhere to a moral code and I I don't see anything I haven't seen anything to lead me to believe that George is funding really nefarious and and dangerous.

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Priscilla Cohen: hateful causes i've never seen anything like that in in all the years that we've viewed and looked and watched and talk with people around that work, and so, but anyway, I think that is important.

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Priscilla Cohen: he's willing to take a stand, I don't know that you're going to find a person now in our lifetime moving forward, because I think he comes from such a, as we say that history of Nazi ISM installing ISM.

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Priscilla Cohen: And fearlessness and then not sure you're going to ever see a person like George Soros ever again, which is sad to me.

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Jessica Shaw: hey I found it really interesting when he says, and you know when you guys talked about that he doesn't do too much press and there's there's really interesting footage I think of interviews that he did when he was.

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Jessica Shaw: Somewhat younger when clearly he was more open to it and and and at one point I think he's tells Jeff green velvet I think it's in that interview he says i'm happy I irritate people and I thought that was.

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Jessica Shaw: I was curious in in you're talking to him if he had a sense did he I mean if he has a sense and kind of takes a step back of.

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Jessica Shaw: Why he knows that there are people out there, that that hate him and, by the way, a lot of those people are are you know it's not even like I want to give them the credibility of.

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Jessica Shaw: The respect to say that this hatred is is justified because when you hear.

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Jessica Shaw: A you know and it's in the film when you hear some of the things that people say about him, it is if it doesn't make the the hair.

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Jessica Shaw: On your neck stand up, then you have learned nothing from history but i'm curious what his perspective is, does he see it as anti Semitic does he see it as as I, I mean I don't know i'm curious what he thinks about it.

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Jesse Dylan: i'm not sure he you know he's he's so driven to go forward that i'm not sure he thinks about.

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Jesse Dylan: The fact that people hate him so much i'm sure he's aware of it.

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Jesse Dylan: But you know that the the scary part about it.

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Jesse Dylan: You know is that you know when we do see this the this form of hatred out there, you know me personally i've worked on the problem of anti semitism around the world.

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Jesse Dylan: You know what it makes you think is that that's you know bad situation could rise again, so I think for.

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Jesse Dylan: For all of us, you know you know, there is this subconscious or conscious fear of of that happening again, and just you know why it's so important that there is a.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, an Israel and why that why it's so important that that you know you know we can never let that happen again, so I think that that gets rolled into it.

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Jesse Dylan: You know I think the pandemic, you know I never thought that we would live in a time where we all would be in the in our homes for a year that that would be inconceivable before the pandemic so.

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Jesse Dylan: I think that we're living in a time where you know history can repeat itself, and so we have to take a stand and I think george's perspective would be just to keep on doing what he's doing.

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Jesse Dylan: And not think about it too much you know we've i've shot with George all over the world being priscilla haven't and one of those places he's just walking around he is a little bit of security, but but it's like.

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Jesse Dylan: Not much, and.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, he wants to talk to the people, he doesn't want any.

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Jesse Dylan: In a rush anything in between him and the people he's trying to.

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Jesse Dylan: Work with, so I do think that's a bit dangerous and and I think that you know, this is a scary time for sure.

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Priscilla Cohen: I think he also says something you know, in the film, he says it twice, but.

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Priscilla Cohen: You know, he if he does say you know if i'm if i'm making people angry, then, and then I think i'm doing something i'm riling them up and he said it early on in sort of those interviews that we pulled from you know earlier interviews, but also, he says that again, you know it's it's.

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Priscilla Cohen: it's taking a stand and what does that mean to take a stand for what you believe in and that's really.

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Priscilla Cohen: I think, for us as well kind of at the heart of this, you know why we felt we had to tell his story, because here is a person who is taking a stand, who is risking and has these sort of access resources, you know that are really on were unparalleled at the time.

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Priscilla Cohen: And then he's willing to make a stand and he says, at the end of the film, you know he's willing, he doesn't want to lose his life over but he's willing to stake his life on this work and that's a very is a very rare thing very.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, he.

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Jesse Dylan: For a long time when when we started working with them, I don't think he thought that the foundations would continue after he was no longer around and then somewhere during that time he decided they would.

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Jesse Dylan: And that is a very fundamental question as well as whether foundations can move on past a you know, an individual and keep the same character, you know you look.

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Jesse Dylan: At the Ford foundation and i'm not sure what the Ford foundation is supporting now that the same things that Henry Ford would would have set the Foundation up to to support so.

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Jesse Dylan: You know the institutions, I think, will go on, and the question is whether they can retain that same commitments and i'm not sure what the answer is, you know I don't think anybody as well, time will tell you know.

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Jessica Shaw: yeah for sure and and hopefully they will continue in in his.

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Jessica Shaw: His his beliefs in the spirit of that but he's not working, can warn him yet he's not he's still.

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Priscilla Cohen: Very 91 years old.

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Jesse Dylan: And still working all.

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Priscilla Cohen: Day every day all day long.

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Jessica Shaw: i'm curious when you stopped filming because clearly I you know I think you watch this and certainly there there's a mention how he helped fund vaccine research.

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Jessica Shaw: You know and there's there's there are mentioned, you know w George W bush's in but, but I was curious if, like any post Donald trump stuff was in there, because that also seems like it was a turning point and especially since George Soros was very much targeted by his campaign.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, we made it during the time of we really put it together during the time of trump and felt like he trump is trump polarizing figure on his own.

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Jesse Dylan: That we didn't I think it would have just suck the movie into a black hole had we had we started to include that so we sort of very.

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Jesse Dylan: You know purposely avoided any mention of him, which I think was the right thing, because you want George to be judged on his own his own space so.

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Jesse Dylan: We we started, we stopped filming somewhere in the middle of that, and then you know, we had to finish the movie because we showed it at the film festival, and there was a deadline, and that was that was a good thing too.

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Jesse Dylan: Because we kind of film this movie forever.

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Priscilla Cohen: yeah I mean we exactly the editing was.

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Priscilla Cohen: Really, complicated and you know, at some point we just have to.

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Priscilla Cohen: Stop I think if any filmmakers in the audience knows it just you know you always want to keep going, but just talk to.

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Priscilla Cohen: Hopefully, leave with leave you all, with an experience and a feeling about something.

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Jesse Dylan: Which is yeah.

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Jessica Shaw: We can do is there, something that, as as you spoke to him about the various causes that he is champion and the the organizations that he has helped fund and the countries that he has visited Is there something that you felt he was the most proud of that he was able to support.

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Jessica Shaw: Either you know financially or just by being there.

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Jesse Dylan: No, I think he's really he's really focused on what's tomorrow, he does not look back you know and.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, he doesn't have any sentimentality about these things if if it doesn't work, it would be was in his trading life to if it doesn't work you just stops moves on, and that it's in and of itself is a lesson as well.

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Priscilla Cohen: yeah I mean I would I mean it's hard to know there's so many things, and they show up in the film, I mean again I think it's it's bigger than i'm sure there are things I don't really know what those with what they are.

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Jesse Dylan: Maybe working a bit and hungry.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, he loves hungry, obviously.

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Priscilla Cohen: I mean, I think that educational though they had to move, you know the central European university again I think a lot of is around education, but it really goes to a bigger the bigger idea which is.

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Priscilla Cohen: Bringing people out from the margins and letting them have conversations and you know, the one thing about towards it's it's kind of fascinating as well, is that he will stay and and support something long after you know he'll stay there longer he also.

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Priscilla Cohen: will make a change very quickly, he can pivot he is absolutely swayed by the people on the ground, doing the work which is really great he's he will say he can change his mind we've seen him in a room changes mine was kind of remarkable he's he's open, and I think that.

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Priscilla Cohen: You know when Jesse talks about when he goes to it sort of goes to a place or meet people Geoffrey Canada shows up beautiful story about when he goes into Harlem.

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Priscilla Cohen: You know here's this little guy he's sort of small you know he's just a guy walking and he just wants he doesn't want to have a whole entourage he just wants to talk to people.

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Priscilla Cohen: We were with him in in Senegal, where he did that as well with very little security there was a group there that that was you know really incredible group that was trying to look at very corrupt politics in Senegal and.

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Priscilla Cohen: He was very interested in them, and they were right there were using rap as a communication tool where there's low literacy, but to go with him and film him as he was.

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Priscilla Cohen: sitting down for hours now, this is the hot sun were incredible incredible credible place.

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Priscilla Cohen: And he's sitting there for hours and everybody else on the team is exhausted George was already in his 80s, at that point late 80s.

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Priscilla Cohen: And he just wants to talk to every single young person there to find out what they're thinking, and that is that is who he is he's just.

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Priscilla Cohen: curious he wants to understand what's going on and he's a, we have to remember George is a genius he is an intellectual giant so he has that ability.

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Priscilla Cohen: i've only been close to that never like Kim you know, maybe a few times in our we've had the opportunity to film some really brilliant people but.

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Priscilla Cohen: So he can hold a lot of ideas in his mind and and and really, really want to understand what's going on how people are thinking and then begin to formulate a sort of a strategy which is, which is kind of remarkable.

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Jessica Shaw: yeah they even there's a there's a moment where he starts to explain how making a financial decision he and then he's always thinking two steps ahead of what the impact will be.

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Jessica Shaw: on society and then and then even beyond that and it's it's kind of fascinating to you get this this small moment where you can actually see the wheels in his mind turning.

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Jessica Shaw: And it's is that what it's like to sit and talk to him.

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Jesse Dylan: yeah I mean you know he's he's out, you know you don't know what he's gonna say so he always has an interesting perspective on things that.

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Jesse Dylan: comes from a wealth of experience and his own his own studies about things so yeah he's he's a fascinating character for sure.

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Jessica Shaw: I said earlier in the chat someone asked of his children, you mentioned is the foundation and you didn't know if it would continue beyond.

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Jessica Shaw: His life, it did you get a sense I mean his children are interviewed.

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Jessica Shaw: In the film, it was really interesting to hear I love one point his his daughter made it, I thought, a wonderful observation about people's takes on him.

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Jessica Shaw: And sometimes depending on.

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Jessica Shaw: The lens through which you are looking.

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Jessica Shaw: Something that he is doing is either seen as you know, this nefarious thing or the most extraordinary thing.

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Jessica Shaw: And to consider.

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Jessica Shaw: That it's important to consider the perspective, I thought that was a very important and kind of crucial take it when you're talking about him but did you get a sense that his children want to continue what their father started yeah.

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Jesse Dylan: Very much so.

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Jesse Dylan: Definitely yeah.

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Priscilla Cohen: And in different ways, some of them have their own work they do, and then.

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Priscilla Cohen: Probably one of them will be is more kind of you know, directly involved with openside foundations of this point, but I think I mean it's yeah I think that it's incredibly.

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Priscilla Cohen: How they've lived and and it's incredibly important to to them to continue some form of you know, work in the world, human rights, social justice, they all have that.

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Jessica Shaw: Which is interesting, especially when you go back to the how what how how much his father informed his way of thinking into be able to pass that you know from generation to generation is is is powerful.

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Jessica Shaw: What was his when he saw the film put together, first of all, when you're like Okay, Mr Soros i'm going to sit down and show it to you, are you like dripping in sweat too.

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Priscilla Cohen: we're not.

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Priscilla Cohen: we're not in the room, we weren't away but.

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Priscilla Cohen: The room where it happened, but.

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yeah.

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Jesse Dylan: yeah.

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Priscilla Cohen: We were we were we were worried, but I think we got a communication back what it was it like pretty good or something.

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Priscilla Cohen: I can't remember like something very on you know.

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Priscilla Cohen: which for us was like few I mean again, this is a person who.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, was not a personal note of.

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Priscilla Cohen: Great it was just Okay, you know.

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Priscilla Cohen: he's very measured in a lot of ways, and so anyway, we we were very excited to get a little bit of Okay, maybe it's Okay, you know I mean.

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Priscilla Cohen: Again this.

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Priscilla Cohen: Is a reluctant.

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Jesse Dylan: You know.

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Priscilla Cohen: To not really we took a lot of work to try to get to be able to tell the story, but we're really grateful that we, we had the opportunity to do it.

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Jessica Shaw: yeah there seems like there's a.

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Jessica Shaw: it's a it's a it's a fine it's it's a real small needle to thread that in his personality it's there, there seems to be a humility to him.

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Jessica Shaw: But also, in a very strong strong.

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Jessica Shaw: Confidence which I, you know, depending on how the I think that balances with humility can either come off or just can come off in different ways.

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Jesse Dylan: yeah well I think that's true I think he does have a he's an incredibly strong personality and he is does have humility and.

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Jesse Dylan: The question is always you know what and and he's he's just going to make the decision for himself it's not like you can.

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Jesse Dylan: You can anything we would say would change his mind he's going to talk to the people arrive at a conclusion and make the decision and that that makes him.

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Jesse Dylan: You know, you know pretty unusual character, in this day and age, because most people you know feel look at the government now they can all be swayed one way or the other, so it's just he's not you can't do that with him, he he's going to decide for themselves.

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Jessica Shaw: And it is really interesting, I want to just close by asking the two of you who's who's, on the other end of the camera for the next film, what are you both working on.

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Jesse Dylan: We have we don't have a documentary going on at the moment, you know, took a long time to make that one I think we're just waiting to find a subject that grabs us enough that we want to spend a couple years on it.

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Priscilla Cohen: yeah.

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Jesse Dylan: it's a big commitment.

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Jessica Shaw: I bet yeah I bet well I whatever whatever the subject is or whoever the subject is i'm certainly looking forward to seeing.

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Jessica Shaw: The film is Soros and I hope that everyone has seen it, and if you haven't that you go check it out, I want to thank Jesse dylan and priscilla Cohen, so so much for joining me, and of course to this audience, but with all of your wonderful questions i'm going to throw it back to Sydney.

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Sydney Yaeger: i'd like to echo what JESSICA said, thank you both so much for joining us, and thank you JESSICA, this was a really awesome event I learned so much, and thank you all for joining us.

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Sydney Yaeger: Everything we do at the museum is made possible through donor support to those of you watching.

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Sydney Yaeger: We hope you'll consider making a donation to support the museum or becoming a member and joining us for our upcoming programs, which you can check out at the link in the zoom chat have a great afternoon, and thank you so much for joining us bye.