Stories Survive: Mark Schonwetter

This program’s original recording transcript is below. This transcription was created automatically during a live program so may contain inaccurate transcriptions of some words.

Ari Goldstein: Alright i'm Ari Goldstein Senior Public programs producer at the Museum of Jewish heritage - a living memorial to the Holocaust.

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Ari Goldstein: And, on behalf of our Museum in New York and our partners at the National Museum of American Jewish history in Philadelphia it's a pleasure to welcome you to today's Program.

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Ari Goldstein: Thank you for joining us on your show or Holocaust Remembrance Day, we work hard to teach the history and lessons of the Holocaust every day.

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Ari Goldstein: But today is a special occasion to step back and remember to honor the memory of those who perished at hands of evil and to pay tribute to those who survived and have made a better world for all of us.

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Ari Goldstein: With us today is mark shown wetter who truly embodies that spirit mark is a Holocaust survivor the retired CEO of the libra far jewelry company and a member of the museum speaker's bureau originally from josh deck.

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Ari Goldstein: shostak Poland mark is here with his daughter and Arnold CPA in business woman from New Jersey and recently wrote together a journey for survival, which tells the story of mark's experiences in Poland during the Holocaust, you can order your copy it's a link in the zoom chat.

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Ari Goldstein: And we'll interview her dad today and then we'll open the floor to audience questions, so please feel free to share questions and comments from mark and zoom and Q amp a box throughout the conversation.

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Ari Goldstein: Without further ado, thank you all for being here and welcome marketing, thank you for sharing your story with us today.

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Ann Arnold: Thank you so much all right well welcome everyone Thank you so much for having my dad and I.

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Ann Arnold: On today we hope you enjoy we're going to go through some questions and answers, where we're going to hear a lot about.

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Ann Arnold: My dad's experiences, but please, as already said, please let us know some questions that you may have that we don't get to and hopefully we'll get to as many as we can.

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Ann Arnold: So to start i'm going to just share my screen to give you a sense of where we're talking about so dad.

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Ann Arnold: You were from a tiny village called justice and that's that red star right here it's in the south east corner of Poland.

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Ann Arnold: As you can see, it was surrounded by some of the concentration camps that many of you may be aware of such as Auschwitz, Belgium, and you know Scott.

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Ann Arnold: it's about a two hour drive south east of Cracow can you describe to us your life and what it was like prior to the war and what your family did.

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Mark Schonwetter: well.

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Mark Schonwetter: My parents lived in this little town of shostak, for I don't know how many years back.

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Mark Schonwetter: My father had a farm.

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Mark Schonwetter: And he has been.

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Mark Schonwetter: The head of the Jewish community in the Center, so I will live like farmers who live could be probably was.

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Mark Schonwetter: Whatever I could remember as a small small child.

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Mark Schonwetter: People work on the farm during the day they went out.

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Mark Schonwetter: I was playing in the garden.

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Mark Schonwetter: and live was basically normal life, like everybody else farmers live.

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Mark Schonwetter: And then in 1939.

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Mark Schonwetter: When the war broke out.

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Mark Schonwetter: In the beginning.

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Mark Schonwetter: Basically, everything was more or less they say.

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Mark Schonwetter: And let me just say that in this little town.

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Mark Schonwetter: goes consisting of about 1500 families 500 families were Jewish families which live there.

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Ann Arnold: So it was a very vibrant Jewish community, it seems like it was a big percentage of the population.

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Mark Schonwetter: Exactly was a pretty nice sized Jewish family that.

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Ann Arnold: So when the war started, how did life change for you to achieve right away or did it take a while.

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Mark Schonwetter: Well, in the beginning.

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Mark Schonwetter: No everything was continuing the same way as before.

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Mark Schonwetter: But after a certain period of time.

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Mark Schonwetter: Maybe close to a year, or maybe less or more give it time start changing.

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Mark Schonwetter: And what what the changes that.

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Mark Schonwetter: They get stopped boy came to town.

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Mark Schonwetter: They went to the police station and they start asking how many Jews there so far.

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Mark Schonwetter: And there were told that my father is the head of the Jewish community.

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Mark Schonwetter: So they came to him and they start asking them questions and then after saw off when they used to come back and impose certain restrictions First they said, all the jewels in a town have to wear.

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Mark Schonwetter: A band with a Star of David.

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Mark Schonwetter: Then they came.

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Mark Schonwetter: And they said, all the Jewish kids.

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Mark Schonwetter: should be taken out from public schools and they not allow to go to schools anymore.

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Mark Schonwetter: And then.

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Mark Schonwetter: They came in.

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Mark Schonwetter: And they told my father.

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Mark Schonwetter: You have to take your personal belongings find yourself a room in town.

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Mark Schonwetter: And you're not going to live anymore in your House, because we are taking that because we need this.

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Mark Schonwetter: So my product went, of course, he did, whatever it was stoked.

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Mark Schonwetter: We found the room.

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Mark Schonwetter: And we live in their bodies family house in one room and that's was the beginning of our live.

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Mark Schonwetter: beyond our House.

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Ann Arnold: Then what happened when did you have to start hiding or did you have to escape what happened.

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Mark Schonwetter: Well, what was happening in between that they still were going and calling to the police station.

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Mark Schonwetter: Right.

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Ann Arnold: Why did they come to the police.

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Mark Schonwetter: Do they need some information, some questions so they call them in and they let him go home they call them in and they let him go.

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Mark Schonwetter: To the point that, then one day when they call him.

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Mark Schonwetter: He didn't show up anymore.

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Mark Schonwetter: My mom was kindness kept scared.

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Mark Schonwetter: He is not called what happened to him, but there is no way she could find anything out.

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Mark Schonwetter: So then she found out because somebody knocked on the door when she often was the wife of the police chief and she told my mom that she overheard the conversation.

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Mark Schonwetter: Between the Gestapo.

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Mark Schonwetter: and her husband and there was saying to him that so in the next whatever short period of time they're going to take all the juice out from the style somewhere, so I just want to let you know, and I suggest you take to your two kids.

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Mark Schonwetter: and run away from this town.

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Ann Arnold: And so what happened did she run at night.

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Mark Schonwetter: Well, when she left mom didn't know what to do.

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Mark Schonwetter: So let me go back for a step.

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Mark Schonwetter: On our property that we had our farm, which was pretty nice big size farm.

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Mark Schonwetter: My product owner quite a bit.

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Mark Schonwetter: Nice big house.

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Mark Schonwetter: And he gave totals.

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Mark Schonwetter: To a Polish family would use to help him.

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Mark Schonwetter: In the work and me.

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Mark Schonwetter: And if its properties.

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Mark Schonwetter: So they live there, so when.

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Mark Schonwetter: mom was told about the Jews being taken.

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Mark Schonwetter: So she didn't know what to go so she goes back to the House, and she goes through this family which name was Mr family be walk.

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Mark Schonwetter: And she goes to him, and she tells the story what she her so he says well.

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Mark Schonwetter: it's pretty late in the evening we're not going to figure it out didn't do much at night now.

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Mark Schonwetter: So you'll go and sleep over in my house a cousin's House and you pointing that me stay overnight in my house sleep with my kids and tomorrow morning he tells my mom i'm going to take them bring them over, and then we talk and we decide what to do.

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Mark Schonwetter: So mama left.

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Mark Schonwetter: I went to sleep between the kids.

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Mark Schonwetter: Early next morning.

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Mark Schonwetter: The door opens the door stopper walks into the room.

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Mark Schonwetter: They go to her and they don't get up and show us.

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Mark Schonwetter: Because we were told that the shown with their family.

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Mark Schonwetter: is in your House.

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Mark Schonwetter: So he looks at the Gestapo guy he says sorry, but he they not here.

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Mark Schonwetter: So he looks at him and he says listen.

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Mark Schonwetter: We want to find them because take a look, I have people with me they going to search the property.

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Mark Schonwetter: But you're not cooperating.

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Mark Schonwetter: So, excuse me so.

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Mark Schonwetter: we're going to find them.

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Mark Schonwetter: And what we're going to do we're going to kill them in you so that's question where are they don't waste my time.

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Mark Schonwetter: And he's insisting they not here, so he tells his people.

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Mark Schonwetter: search go and search the property.

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Mark Schonwetter: So that he walking down.

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Mark Schonwetter: He is walking behind them, then all of a sudden, he stops by the door he turns around.

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Mark Schonwetter: And he sees all those kids sleeping on the floor.

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Mark Schonwetter: He turns to a one of them happened to be a girl the older girl.

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Mark Schonwetter: And he says to her, can you tell me how many brothers and sisters, you have.

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Mark Schonwetter: Now she without any hesitation says seven so he goes he counts and it's seven kids Okay, so he walks out.

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Mark Schonwetter: Well, I was probably the luckiest kid in the world that you were smart enough to include me in the cow.

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Ann Arnold: really were.

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Mark Schonwetter: yeah.

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Ann Arnold: So what did he make you do from there were you able, with able to get you away from the Nazis looking for you.

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Mark Schonwetter: Well, he took me.

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Mark Schonwetter: And we went to my mom.

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Mark Schonwetter: And he does my mom listen.

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Mark Schonwetter: I think that the safest place for you would be if I take you and show you the ghetto there is here, and next big town to us which happened to be the name of the town than pizza.

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Mark Schonwetter: Because.

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Mark Schonwetter: The Polish police or they get stop or from here, they wouldn't even think that you went to the ghetto so.

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Mark Schonwetter: you'll be safe.

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Mark Schonwetter: Where you cannot hide here, because you see, they come in they're going to serve all over here for you over there, at least, nobody will know you so you'll say.

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Ann Arnold: It seems like.

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Mark Schonwetter: yesterday.

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Ann Arnold: And now it seems like things got real really quickly, I have to say I remember one of the first times that we went back to Poland meeting.

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Ann Arnold: That daughter that had saved you and how she still board is like a badge of honor and she was so excited to tell us the story of that that was me I was the one who said it, and all of her kids knew the story it's quite amazing she had the smarts to be able to do that.

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Mark Schonwetter: Exactly.

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Ann Arnold: She did it.

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Ann Arnold: But then, so, then you got to the ghetto what was life, like in when you got there.

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Mark Schonwetter: Well, when we walked into the jetta which was fairly easy to walk in but you could never walk out.

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Mark Schonwetter: And we ban both of us me and my sister.

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Mark Schonwetter: My younger sister.

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Mark Schonwetter: And we start walking the streets looking for the location to live.

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Mark Schonwetter: Whatever we went to a house, there was no room no space available there were packed people are like one on top of each other.

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Mark Schonwetter: And why walking the streets looking for the location, we saw people living on the street.

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Mark Schonwetter: One next to each other.

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Mark Schonwetter: But somehow she found one house that had a little space on the added.

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Mark Schonwetter: And we said was enough room for three of us to sit there, and this was our place that we start to live.

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Mark Schonwetter: Well, after walking so many hours in everything we were very hungry.

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Mark Schonwetter: So my mom is asking somebody next to ask, can you tell me what I can get some food.

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Mark Schonwetter: penicillin looks at her for.

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Mark Schonwetter: There is no foot here, you can add get anything that will give you food wait for another hour so when you stay in line they give you food that's it, that was the answer Okay, no food no way to go, we wait.

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Mark Schonwetter: Time comes everybody goes out staying in line when we get to the.

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Mark Schonwetter: They call it the kitchen by the was like the stand.

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Mark Schonwetter: And when we got there they say okay so and they gave us.

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Mark Schonwetter: A.

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Mark Schonwetter: cup of soup, which actually the soap when you look inside was one water you felt a little bit warm water.

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Mark Schonwetter: And, and nothing inside.

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Mark Schonwetter: Nothing just the water, then you make another couple steps.

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Mark Schonwetter: And they gave you a slice of a dry piece of bread next that was it the food wow that's the food yeah that was default then take too much time for us to finish this grateful.

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Mark Schonwetter: and continue behind really back there was nothing else.

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Mark Schonwetter: and basically day by day by day, we used to stay twice and the line get this foot and that's what was that's how we.

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Mark Schonwetter: kept ourselves going.

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Mark Schonwetter: Well COs we got sick.

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Mark Schonwetter: We got lies.

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Mark Schonwetter: my mouth cut our hair.

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Mark Schonwetter: We were during the day and night because there was no close to change we didn't have any clothes.

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Mark Schonwetter: So we were day and night again the same clothes every day.

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Mark Schonwetter: There was no water to wash yourself even.

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Mark Schonwetter: And that's how we live in this ghetto, and we saw what was going to go help people that were dying the whoever couldn't.

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Mark Schonwetter: survive those situations was.

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Mark Schonwetter: dying.

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Mark Schonwetter: and whoever could survive.

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Mark Schonwetter: Live because you couldn't get any drugs and the doctors or anything because there was nothing like that.

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Ann Arnold: So you know grandma your mom was alone in this ghetto with two young children, I think you were nine and and Sasha was maybe six or seven years old, how did you finally escape how long were you there and then how did you escape.

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Mark Schonwetter: Well, we went in this ghetto, I think it was about three months or so.

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Mark Schonwetter: And then.

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Mark Schonwetter: There were rumors going gone for a while that they will liquidate the ghetto, they will liquidated yet or but nothing was happening so okay people talk.

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Mark Schonwetter: But then, one day, a boy came to my mom and he says.

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Mark Schonwetter: I know you're the Sean wetter, but there is a man.

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Mark Schonwetter: And the other side of the fence.

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Mark Schonwetter: And he mentioned your name if anybody knows you and I said I don't since he tells me go and Brenda Brenda Sean what the here.

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Mark Schonwetter: So mom goals and she looks who is that Mr P work.

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Mark Schonwetter: And he tells the my mom.

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Mark Schonwetter: Listen, make it fast go back get your kids come here and I show you how to get from here out but quick quick quick.

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Mark Schonwetter: So my mom rounds picks me up, then my sister.

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Mark Schonwetter: And he tells her Okay, he takes.

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Mark Schonwetter: A blanket Trolls over the barbed wire.

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Mark Schonwetter: And he says okay pick one kid at that time and throw it over.

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Mark Schonwetter: So mom says to him, I cannot do it i'm weak I don't have strength to pick up anything he says, you don't have strength you pick him up and you throw it.

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Mark Schonwetter: You have strength, take a look those two little kids they skin and bone there is no way that you can do it don't tell me, you cannot do it go ahead, take quick there's no time to play games here.

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Mark Schonwetter: So my mom goes and strength strike sense himself gets as much thread that she can pros my sister then she throws me.

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Mark Schonwetter: And then he tells okay your client and you jump over and I get you here.

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Mark Schonwetter: And that's how we got out from this.

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Mark Schonwetter: Year talk you talk us through the House was a little house next to it, and he tell us okay get rid of your clothes.

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Mark Schonwetter: Because they're horrible.

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Mark Schonwetter: I have clothes here for you, your change, I have some foot for you, because you are unsure angry eat and we're going to go, I have a place for you to go.

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Mark Schonwetter: And that's how we got out from the work for a few hours, and we got to where village where he had the arrangements for us.

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Ann Arnold: So did you stay in that House that he brought to you for the rest of the war or did you have to hide, I mean what happened when you got there, how did you then survive.

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well.

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Mark Schonwetter: When we got that he introduced us and the lady looked at mom and she says well.

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Mark Schonwetter: I see you have two little kids.

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Mark Schonwetter: Now, if I take you are you promise that those two kids wouldn't talk.

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Mark Schonwetter: With left wouldn't cry they have to be quiet I don't want to hear assigned no sign from them.

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Mark Schonwetter: What you do, would you do that mom says yes, I promise, they will be like be quiet so she says go on the other.

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Mark Schonwetter: there's plenty of Haider cover yourself with it and you're going to stay there, day and night you're not going out anywhere you're just stay there, I will come and I give you some thought and that's it.

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Mark Schonwetter: that's how we were staying that through the whole.

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Mark Schonwetter: winter.

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Ann Arnold: So what would happen when the summer key.

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Mark Schonwetter: Well, when the late spring came she came to my mom and she told that okay.

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Mark Schonwetter: Take your kids and you have to leave the House and not holding you anymore.

201
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Mark Schonwetter: mom says, but you asked me if we behave you won't.

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Mark Schonwetter: stay here we didn't do anything wrong, please hold us I don't have where to go.

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Mark Schonwetter: So she says, I I know you don't have work to go but i'm afraid to hold you because the consequences may be back for me and for you.

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Mark Schonwetter: So, but the only place, I can tell you to go why don't you go to the forest key it's a very big forest go there it's summertime it's war.

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Mark Schonwetter: And you'll be okay.

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Mark Schonwetter: You live there.

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Mark Schonwetter: So we walked into the forest We walked my mom was walking around looking for a location, when she found one between the bushes.

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Mark Schonwetter: The first thing she did.

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Mark Schonwetter: She says to us Okay, we have to go look for some food, there are many things growing in the forest that we can eat We just have to find it.

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Mark Schonwetter: So when we find them.

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Mark Schonwetter: you listen to me listen good to me because i'm going to show you which food, we can eat and which items we cannot eat because that poison.

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Mark Schonwetter: So you have to learn, you have to keep your mind on it and I teach you I show you so, for example, we found mushrooms.

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Mark Schonwetter: She says Oh, those are good match remember that's the way they look, then we walk that you found mushroom oh no, no, no, those mushrooms are no good that poison don't shoot there to take this.

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Ann Arnold: And she really taught you and josh I have to porridge and how to find what was good and what was.

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Mark Schonwetter: Exactly the same thing they were berries or anything else there's good there's no good this book that's no good.

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Mark Schonwetter: Class when we went live it.

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Mark Schonwetter: should never stood in one place too low.

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Mark Schonwetter: Maybe a few days and then she says okay we're going to change the location and we move to another place and we start being there.

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Mark Schonwetter: So we were.

220
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Ann Arnold: To ever see other people when you were in the forest.

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Mark Schonwetter: At this beginning of time we didn't see it yet.

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Mark Schonwetter: But she was showing us.

223
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Mark Schonwetter: How.

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Mark Schonwetter: to distinguish the sound if a human being walk in the forest or the animals walk.

225
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Mark Schonwetter: What kind of sound you'll hear from the.

226
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Mark Schonwetter: From the leaves on this.

227
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Mark Schonwetter: And we learned those things and we became pretty good in distinguishing.

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Mark Schonwetter: Now, if you asking if there were other people, we did game across at one point of a group of Jewish people.

229
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Mark Schonwetter: And when.

230
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Mark Schonwetter: They saw as they are my God, a woman with two kids why don't you join us in you stay together so much better for you.

231
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Mark Schonwetter: than to just be by yourself it's so dangerous by yourself to be the stay in the wider and mom with this in that she says Thank you so much, but i'm not going to go and stay in a big group, because if we stay in a big group.

232
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Mark Schonwetter: Somebody passes by it's very easy to spot a big group.

233
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Mark Schonwetter: And then, what they're going to sell the gentleman skier and that'll be the end of us, thank you, you stay and I go bad whatever I am.

234
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Mark Schonwetter: And just to continue this part of it, and one of the time, what happened at one point.

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Mark Schonwetter: We did start hearing early in the morning show shall surely surely.

236
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Mark Schonwetter: And my mom took us and we start running whatever we heard the shooting.

237
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Mark Schonwetter: And we were this kind of surprised mom why you're going there they showed in here.

238
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Mark Schonwetter: Just follow me and just listen to me, make sure that do whatever I tell you, we have to go behind what they are.

239
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Mark Schonwetter: Because if we stay go forward, she tells there will see that we were here, so we probably escaped forward we're not going to go back and then I will catch up so let's go back behind somewhere that we have to find a way to go, behind it and that's what we did that's what mom did.

240
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Mark Schonwetter: And then, after a few hours, we can put the location back to see what's happened, or there was about 20 something people they were all dead.

241
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Ann Arnold: it's amazing the instincts she had to even think, because I think I would have just gotten up and run I never would have thought to have to run towards the gunfire to try to get around it, to avoid it it's amazing instincts really always amaze me.

242
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Ann Arnold: So what happened when we get cold, did you stay in the forest or did you.

243
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Well location.

244
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Mark Schonwetter: That the way it was gone so let me just say in general summer.

245
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Mark Schonwetter: This summer, the next summer and the following summer.

246
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Mark Schonwetter: We were staying in hiding in the forests now where the times.

247
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Mark Schonwetter: We couldn't stay in there for us because I mean winter snow freezing cold saw.

248
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Mark Schonwetter: What we did at night.

249
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Mark Schonwetter: bomb was working to some villages and asking for place.

250
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Mark Schonwetter: To stay.

251
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Mark Schonwetter: If they can take ASEAN.

252
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Mark Schonwetter: And usually if they don't cause for a week or two, we were lucky, then we had to go to another place.

253
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Mark Schonwetter: And why we were doing that.

254
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Mark Schonwetter: She finally couldn't get any place so she went back to our little town.

255
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Mark Schonwetter: And she went to a one of the families that there was not my family was very close with them, and she told them, you know I don't have where to go, can you can you hide me.

256
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Mark Schonwetter: So they say Okay, I take you back listen you're in town.

257
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Mark Schonwetter: it's dangerous fear I take you for a week, maybe or less, but you have to go and start looking for a different location.

258
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Mark Schonwetter: So we stood there for a week let's say then at night should leave.

259
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Mark Schonwetter: By herself and walk around places to find the location, when she found that she came she took us and we went there.

260
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Mark Schonwetter: And usually they weren't that time we were staying in somebody's ethics or some barn.

261
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Mark Schonwetter: And that's how we were hiding.

262
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Mark Schonwetter: And one time, when we were hiding, and this.

263
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Mark Schonwetter: down, then I went down and this family's name was judges.

264
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Mark Schonwetter: In their house.

265
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Mark Schonwetter: We were sitting down together.

266
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Ann Arnold: So dad, let me just correct, let me just make sure so just for everyone to see the attic, this is the actual addict you were hiding.

267
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Ann Arnold: yeah that's.

268
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Mark Schonwetter: What yeah, and this is the House where it was the editor dawn.

269
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Mark Schonwetter: Right, so one time.

270
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Mark Schonwetter: Like we hear like you'll see the opening and you'll see the step ladder.

271
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Mark Schonwetter: Right, we hear that somebody cleanse our top and we heard the voices that we know those are Germans and we were hiding here when it says the attic.

272
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Mark Schonwetter: Right hey buddy hey was full here it's a little early but that time it was full with hey so the German guy came upstairs.

273
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Mark Schonwetter: And there was a PIC for an aside by the door the.

274
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Mark Schonwetter: Right fork.

275
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Mark Schonwetter: And he took her, and he start hitting that day walking around and feed that in all different places.

276
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Mark Schonwetter: Because he figured if somebody is that if you hit some they're going to scream a garden.

277
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Mark Schonwetter: And somehow I don't know how.

278
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Mark Schonwetter: He didn't hit us.

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wow.

280
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Mark Schonwetter: It was a miracle.

281
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Ann Arnold: It was what some other unusual places that you have to hide.

282
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Mark Schonwetter: And now the unusual place we were hiding at one winter, the following winter.

283
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Mark Schonwetter: We walk my walk into a farmer.

284
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Mark Schonwetter: And he says Okay, I feel bad for you, I feel sorry I figured out something about give me some time to.

285
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Mark Schonwetter: make the decision, what I want to how, what I want to put show in.

286
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Mark Schonwetter: So he goes and he says come back in a day or so let me see what I can do so when because we came close quick back.

287
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Mark Schonwetter: And he says okay.

288
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Mark Schonwetter: I think I have a place for you.

289
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Mark Schonwetter: Come on, I show you he takes us and brings us into a big state.

290
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Mark Schonwetter: And he says you'll see I dig the hole inside this fixed tight here.

291
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Mark Schonwetter: But as you look at the whole is very shallow.

292
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Mark Schonwetter: Not even said you're gonna be able here, so if you think you'll be comfortable to be the end just to lay down.

293
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Mark Schonwetter: Then you stay here, I take you so mom says no big deal I do it, we do it, we do it.

294
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Mark Schonwetter: So that's what it then he says okay walk there step into it, we step, then we lay down.

295
00:34:17.430 --> 00:34:24.930
Mark Schonwetter: He takes pieces of wood puts on top of it covers the whole thing up, then he puts hey On top of this.

296
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Mark Schonwetter: and

297
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Mark Schonwetter: brands that PICs in.

298
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Mark Schonwetter: And how that's how we start living in this location, we live, we were lucky because we live through the whole winter like that we didn't have to walk in the snow.

299
00:34:45.780 --> 00:35:07.620
Mark Schonwetter: Free and look for the location or just sitting there as bad uncomfortable and horrible it was bad at least we had that place and we felt to a degree, comfortable that we can live here and that's how we survive, one of the other winters.

300
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Ann Arnold: You were pretty close to that animal, I will say that.

301
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Ann Arnold: Yes, because you know it's amazing when you were in the forest you really didn't encounter many wild animals or have too much of an encounter with that it seems like it was almost when you would think you wouldn't, which was the winter that's when you encountered the animals more.

302
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Mark Schonwetter: yeah.

303
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Ann Arnold: yeah and so, how long did you live like that, like, I know that you were in the forest for a while, but then obviously how did you get liberated were you in the forest or did you eventually have to leave the forest or the hiding.

304
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Mark Schonwetter: Well, in 1944 and this summer, then we went back to the forest.

305
00:35:50.130 --> 00:35:54.030
Mark Schonwetter: And it was laid beginning of the fall already.

306
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Mark Schonwetter: We all of a sudden start hearing explosions from Father way.

307
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Mark Schonwetter: And then we start hearing them closer and closer and closer, so my mom decided, we cannot stay anymore in the forest.

308
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Mark Schonwetter: So.

309
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Mark Schonwetter: He took she took us, and she says Okay, we have to get out from here somewhere go I don't know where, but we have to find a way let's see what's going on and we start moving out deeper and deeper towards the villages.

310
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Mark Schonwetter: far further away from the sound of the explosions, and why we were doing that we noticed that people Polish farmers were escaping the front lines and there were groups of people passing so my mom says to us okay what we're going to do.

311
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Mark Schonwetter: We going to follow those groups stay in their back and you'll do don't talk any questions you'll get something done answer your kids you don't have to say anything.

312
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Mark Schonwetter: and your names are going to be changed.

313
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Mark Schonwetter: And she gave us Polish names and she told us what the name she's going to have a Polish now Those are our names.

314
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Mark Schonwetter: And finally, we were lucky enough that one of the farmers to cousin.

315
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Mark Schonwetter: And we live with this far been.

316
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Mark Schonwetter: Through the winter.

317
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Mark Schonwetter: And then in 19.

318
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Mark Schonwetter: For the five.

319
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Mark Schonwetter: someplace Downs in February.

320
00:37:57.420 --> 00:38:02.820
Mark Schonwetter: All of a sudden everything quiet down, and then we here.

321
00:38:04.140 --> 00:38:06.420
Mark Schonwetter: We see some soldiers walking.

322
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Mark Schonwetter: We didn't know who the soldiers are or anything.

323
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Mark Schonwetter: So when they got to the House, they start speaking the language that we did not understand.

324
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Mark Schonwetter: One of them, finally says he knows a little Polish and he says abolish to us.

325
00:38:28.260 --> 00:38:32.550
Mark Schonwetter: We are the Soviet army we liberate the true.

326
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Mark Schonwetter: you're free.

327
00:38:37.020 --> 00:38:38.220
Mark Schonwetter: You can go home.

328
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Mark Schonwetter: Whatever you are from there is no more Germans in the area, you say go home.

329
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Ann Arnold: wow I mean at least you knew you hopefully didn't have to live on the forest floor and sleep on leaves and branches anymore and.

330
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Ann Arnold: You know I know i'm sure it took an emotional toll on all of you, knowing how everybody risked their lives for you, I know grandma knew the implication.

331
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Ann Arnold: of people hiding you and how dangerous it was for everybody, so how, when this was over, and you heard you were liberated, how did it make you feel.

332
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Mark Schonwetter: Well it's a good question how would make us feel.

333
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Mark Schonwetter: It make us feel.

334
00:39:25.980 --> 00:39:29.040
Mark Schonwetter: it's hard to describe the feeling.

335
00:39:30.360 --> 00:39:32.460
Mark Schonwetter: How, you were free.

336
00:39:33.720 --> 00:39:51.360
Mark Schonwetter: You kind of thought Oh, I have free I don't have to probably starve anymore I don't have to be afraid of anything I can go and live my life and not to look at I mean see what's going on in guy who was there.

337
00:39:54.360 --> 00:39:58.440
Mark Schonwetter: It was such a good feeling that you can imagine.

338
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Mark Schonwetter: So just let me give you a small comparison, which is isn't a comparison, but a feeling of a matter of a feeling.

339
00:40:12.330 --> 00:40:13.470
Mark Schonwetter: you'll see today.

340
00:40:15.900 --> 00:40:17.580
Mark Schonwetter: We have the call it 19.

341
00:40:20.370 --> 00:40:26.910
Mark Schonwetter: and families didn't see their kids the one family didn't see the other for a year.

342
00:40:28.110 --> 00:40:33.000
Mark Schonwetter: Because they were afraid that if something you get the virus.

343
00:40:36.600 --> 00:40:37.020
Mark Schonwetter: So if.

344
00:40:38.520 --> 00:40:55.020
Mark Schonwetter: you're lucky enough that discovered the vaccine you get one shot you'll get another shot now you've got two shots, then you ask your kids that you'll get your shots yes, we got they should use the shots.

345
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Mark Schonwetter: wow.

346
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Mark Schonwetter: Now we can go and get together, finally, finally, after a year not seeing each other, we can get together and I can give you a hug and kids what kind of feeling that you had wasn't that great feeling for you that you could finally meet the your kids or the kids could meet you.

347
00:41:24.960 --> 00:41:27.570
Mark Schonwetter: Now you asked me how my feeling was.

348
00:41:29.850 --> 00:41:31.140
Mark Schonwetter: We left the farm.

349
00:41:32.310 --> 00:41:34.200
Mark Schonwetter: went back to our House.

350
00:41:36.270 --> 00:41:40.500
Mark Schonwetter: The House is destroyed the front line went through.

351
00:41:43.500 --> 00:41:44.130
Mark Schonwetter: And D ND.

352
00:41:45.810 --> 00:41:50.100
Mark Schonwetter: Not many people, because people escape the front line, not many people.

353
00:41:51.690 --> 00:41:52.440
Mark Schonwetter: So we.

354
00:41:55.140 --> 00:42:00.390
Mark Schonwetter: say that they have to live there, nobody comes back.

355
00:42:01.590 --> 00:42:03.000
Mark Schonwetter: There is nobody there.

356
00:42:04.290 --> 00:42:09.210
Mark Schonwetter: We wait another week passes by yourself, nobody here candy.

357
00:42:14.040 --> 00:42:17.730
Mark Schonwetter: I don't see my father coming in, give me a hug and a kiss.

358
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Mark Schonwetter: So you'll see as much as it was.

359
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Mark Schonwetter: The feeling the freedom and everything by your head, also the feeling.

360
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What have.

361
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Ann Arnold: See you never saw your father.

362
00:42:39.390 --> 00:42:42.030
Mark Schonwetter: Oh, I never saw my father yet.

363
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Ann Arnold: You know what happened to him.

364
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Mark Schonwetter: What we were told was just be just studying what we were told after we were.

365
00:42:54.270 --> 00:42:55.200
Mark Schonwetter: We escaped.

366
00:42:56.490 --> 00:42:58.290
Mark Schonwetter: few days later, whatever.

367
00:42:59.490 --> 00:43:01.170
Mark Schonwetter: The Germans came to town.

368
00:43:04.110 --> 00:43:04.980
Mark Schonwetter: And they thought.

369
00:43:06.090 --> 00:43:08.670
Mark Schonwetter: They request that Polish.

370
00:43:09.900 --> 00:43:14.760
Mark Schonwetter: men to go to work they took him on trucks.

371
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Mark Schonwetter: And they brought them into folders.

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00:43:20.070 --> 00:43:22.260
Mark Schonwetter: And they told him to dig a big hole.

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Mark Schonwetter: after they were done with digging all this big Hall, they took him back to town.

374
00:43:31.980 --> 00:43:36.030
Mark Schonwetter: And then they came back for them and they told them, we need you back to work.

375
00:43:39.240 --> 00:43:48.510
Mark Schonwetter: So they went, when they came back to the same location, they took them all of a sudden, they saw that this big hall that they did.

376
00:43:49.860 --> 00:43:53.640
Mark Schonwetter: It it's fact it's full with dead bodies.

377
00:43:54.780 --> 00:43:57.840
Mark Schonwetter: So they told them to cover the whole thing up nicely.

378
00:43:59.220 --> 00:44:06.570
Mark Schonwetter: They did the job, then after that they told them Okay, there are items here.

379
00:44:08.970 --> 00:44:12.870
Mark Schonwetter: Take one I don't for the work that you did go ahead, take one item.

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00:44:14.490 --> 00:44:19.350
Mark Schonwetter: So there was this one guy in between that you'll still work for my father.

381
00:44:20.820 --> 00:44:28.410
Mark Schonwetter: And he went look at out and he notice those pair of shoes and he says, all those shows, I know.

382
00:44:29.460 --> 00:44:30.960
Mark Schonwetter: And he put those shoes on.

383
00:44:33.390 --> 00:44:44.970
Mark Schonwetter: Because he knew the adult shoes belongs to my father, but he was working in urine and that's what he told the story to my mom and that's how we found out.

384
00:44:46.740 --> 00:44:51.270
Mark Schonwetter: That my father was murdered and and it's and it's big.

385
00:44:52.770 --> 00:44:57.180
Mark Schonwetter: A nice grave and this particular for us.

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Ann Arnold: Just for everyone can see, they discovered the masquerade in 2011 a hiker was hiking through the forest and so a piece of stone sticking out from the ground which is this piece of stone in the upper right.

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Ann Arnold: And they realize that people anonymously must have gone back afterward and marked that grave with the hopes that somebody would find it one day, these people's lives would not have been lost in vain.

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Ann Arnold: And they've made a memorial of it, you had an opportunity to visit it and it is pretty deep there in the forest but it's quite amazing that we were actually able to find that mass grave.

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Ann Arnold: So thank you that I know it's not easy talking about that, so how long did you stay informed me how how did you leave phones.

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00:45:44.400 --> 00:45:48.150
Mark Schonwetter: Well, we stood in Poland, the 1957.

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Mark Schonwetter: And from the time we were liberated to the time that we left we lived in this town named Todd move which was a little nice size of a town.

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Mark Schonwetter: And we went to school me and my sister went to school, there we graduated high school that.

393
00:46:11.130 --> 00:46:19.410
Mark Schonwetter: Then, my sister went to the university that I went to and then in 1957.

394
00:46:21.120 --> 00:46:23.730
Mark Schonwetter: There was a change in the.

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Mark Schonwetter: Polish Government.

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00:46:27.600 --> 00:46:29.070
Ann Arnold: It was a communist regime right.

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Mark Schonwetter: yeah we're live at the spirit of Poland was a comedy Asian yeah.

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00:46:35.190 --> 00:46:37.650
Mark Schonwetter: Okay, and we.

399
00:46:40.140 --> 00:46:50.760
Mark Schonwetter: One day, there was a change in the government and the new leader of the Communist Party became some little better guidance, the other probably.

400
00:46:52.260 --> 00:46:55.200
Mark Schonwetter: And when they announced that.

401
00:46:57.270 --> 00:47:00.000
Mark Schonwetter: They will allow Jewish people.

402
00:47:01.080 --> 00:47:07.890
Mark Schonwetter: To leave fallen and go only to Israel, if they will go through.

403
00:47:11.970 --> 00:47:24.930
Mark Schonwetter: What you call it a go through certain restrictions, they post on and they're going to investigate if everything is okay with them, they behave, they will get the permit.

404
00:47:25.950 --> 00:47:32.250
Mark Schonwetter: To leave and we apply it, we got the permit and we went to Israel.

405
00:47:33.990 --> 00:47:38.490
Mark Schonwetter: And in 1957 we arrived in Israel.

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00:47:40.620 --> 00:47:46.110
Ann Arnold: And I know from there, you came to America in 1961 when you were sponsored by some relatives.

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00:47:46.560 --> 00:47:47.760
Mark Schonwetter: Right exactly.

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00:47:48.510 --> 00:48:01.740
Ann Arnold: So throughout this whole thing, how did your mother keep your hope alive and did you keep the traditions of the Jewish like what are your religious beliefs did she keep that alive.

409
00:48:03.600 --> 00:48:09.030
Mark Schonwetter: Well, you have to understand that during this period of time.

410
00:48:10.260 --> 00:48:14.130
Mark Schonwetter: That when we start hiding till we were liberated.

411
00:48:15.720 --> 00:48:33.840
Mark Schonwetter: We didn't know anything about the religion, there was no opportunity or anything to think about the religion or to live with their religion, we didn't know when they we knew only when his day or night.

412
00:48:34.860 --> 00:48:41.430
Mark Schonwetter: But we did know this is a sometimes Monday or Tuesday or Wednesday whatever.

413
00:48:42.630 --> 00:48:47.280
Mark Schonwetter: And then, when we live under the Communist regime and again.

414
00:48:49.800 --> 00:48:52.230
Mark Schonwetter: We didn't obey because there was no religion.

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00:48:52.590 --> 00:48:54.060
Ann Arnold: And wasn't even many Jews, I don't.

416
00:48:54.300 --> 00:48:56.940
Mark Schonwetter: Know what's not Besides, there were not many jewels.

417
00:48:57.690 --> 00:48:58.860
Mark Schonwetter: And there was no.

418
00:49:00.120 --> 00:49:06.810
Mark Schonwetter: possibility to live under the religion, so I didn't I actually didn't have any.

419
00:49:08.010 --> 00:49:09.510
Mark Schonwetter: religious education.

420
00:49:11.190 --> 00:49:18.360
Mark Schonwetter: So I just live our mind live we live, you know, without the religion.

421
00:49:19.410 --> 00:49:31.050
Mark Schonwetter: Though if you ask me later on, after I came to Israel and I came to the United States, I start observing the Jewish traditions.

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00:49:33.180 --> 00:49:39.660
Mark Schonwetter: More the Jewish traditions that going back to the study religion.

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Ann Arnold: And grandma kept her hope alive and she was such a positive always taught you, and especially to be just so positive that's what I always took away from it is how positive, you are your whole life and.

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Ann Arnold: it's amazing to me and my sister Isabella just We always talk about it's amazing that you go through something like that you guys can be so positive.

425
00:50:02.550 --> 00:50:03.270
Mark Schonwetter: see that.

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Ann Arnold: You know, we had a question that was asked and I have to say, asked me if there was much anti semitism that you experienced before the war or any of your neighbors.

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00:50:12.750 --> 00:50:25.740
Ann Arnold: That experienced that kind of anti semitism and I will say that when I was researching for the book, one of the things I realized is in this small little part of Holland and glitzy a region it's called it was actually known as a very.

428
00:50:26.820 --> 00:50:39.750
Ann Arnold: harmonious area where there wasn't that much anti semitism Do you remember feeling any anti semitism or hearing from your mother, that there was anti semitism before the war.

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00:50:40.560 --> 00:50:41.760
Mark Schonwetter: Honestly, saying.

430
00:50:43.590 --> 00:50:53.370
Mark Schonwetter: I never heard anything my mom say, and I even didn't know for yourself that that what antisemitism meant.

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00:50:54.210 --> 00:51:04.710
Ann Arnold: amazing you know I remember when we went back, we went back to Poland i'm gonna share my screen again here in 2009 and the.

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Ann Arnold: satanic just take, not only did they welcome us but they put a plaque on town hall commemorating the memory of the Jewish community.

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00:51:15.240 --> 00:51:22.560
Ann Arnold: And then, this town also had a ceremony with over 600 people where they be consecrated and Jewish cemetery.

434
00:51:22.950 --> 00:51:30.210
Ann Arnold: And they put a concert on for us where they started singing in Hebrew and they really welcomed us into their arms and it was a very.

435
00:51:30.510 --> 00:51:34.800
Ann Arnold: For me, a life changing experience with motivated us to start our own journey.

436
00:51:35.160 --> 00:51:47.130
Ann Arnold: But I know we're getting close to the end here and I i'd like to ask you that now that we've written the book and you go out and you speak to students with my sister and myself, and you speak to adults of all ages.

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00:51:47.610 --> 00:51:59.400
Ann Arnold: What is the message that you want to impart on everybody that hears you speaking, you know, is there a lesson that you have learned throughout all of this, that you would like to share with.

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00:52:01.650 --> 00:52:02.940
Mark Schonwetter: Well, the message.

439
00:52:05.130 --> 00:52:09.360
Mark Schonwetter: Usually, sometimes a message is a very simple thing.

440
00:52:10.530 --> 00:52:15.000
Mark Schonwetter: The hard thing about this that people don't follow it.

441
00:52:18.420 --> 00:52:29.130
Mark Schonwetter: You see, the messages that there was 6 million people that during Jewish people met.

442
00:52:30.150 --> 00:52:36.180
Mark Schonwetter: killed murdered in this period of time don't forget.

443
00:52:37.260 --> 00:52:40.560
Mark Schonwetter: There was also another 5 million people.

444
00:52:41.880 --> 00:52:42.870
Mark Schonwetter: who were killed.

445
00:52:45.480 --> 00:52:56.550
Mark Schonwetter: which were roamers lesbians and it didn't cause against hit the like the Jews don't the other ones, they were not area people.

446
00:52:57.750 --> 00:52:59.100
Mark Schonwetter: They were killed.

447
00:53:01.830 --> 00:53:05.670
Mark Schonwetter: So in our town where I came from.

448
00:53:07.440 --> 00:53:12.420
Mark Schonwetter: There were 1500 people from which 500 was Jewish families.

449
00:53:13.560 --> 00:53:16.110
Mark Schonwetter: And you know what what's left after this fall deep.

450
00:53:17.760 --> 00:53:20.190
Mark Schonwetter: Maybe 1012 but some of the people.

451
00:53:23.040 --> 00:53:28.680
Mark Schonwetter: privileged three of us were my mom my sister me everybody was killed.

452
00:53:30.390 --> 00:53:37.110
Mark Schonwetter: So the message here is, we have to remember what happened in this period of time.

453
00:53:39.330 --> 00:53:42.600
Mark Schonwetter: So this way we can prevent in the future.

454
00:53:43.650 --> 00:53:46.530
Mark Schonwetter: From happy thing anything like it again.

455
00:53:48.900 --> 00:53:50.970
Mark Schonwetter: Because I learned in my life.

456
00:53:52.950 --> 00:53:53.400
Mark Schonwetter: That.

457
00:53:54.570 --> 00:53:57.180
Mark Schonwetter: You can accomplish much more.

458
00:53:58.290 --> 00:53:59.580
Mark Schonwetter: With kindness.

459
00:54:01.260 --> 00:54:05.400
Mark Schonwetter: With laugh to each other with respect to each other.

460
00:54:06.900 --> 00:54:07.980
Mark Schonwetter: Then, with hatred.

461
00:54:09.960 --> 00:54:19.560
Mark Schonwetter: Hatred is going to create more hatreds and it does create more of a threat.

462
00:54:20.640 --> 00:54:22.800
Mark Schonwetter: And what is this brain you by the end.

463
00:54:24.240 --> 00:54:26.130
Mark Schonwetter: It could bring you to a disaster.

464
00:54:27.510 --> 00:54:28.620
Mark Schonwetter: Do we need this.

465
00:54:29.910 --> 00:54:38.130
Mark Schonwetter: We live in such a short period of time, so let's enjoy our life, because we all the same.

466
00:54:39.270 --> 00:54:40.410
Mark Schonwetter: regardless.

467
00:54:42.480 --> 00:54:54.150
Mark Schonwetter: If we Christians, Muslims Jewish Hindu or who either either religion, there is, we all say.

468
00:54:55.350 --> 00:55:07.410
Mark Schonwetter: It makes a difference if one is black the other one is why the other one is brown why we distinguishing this we just human to be living on this earth.

469
00:55:08.580 --> 00:55:10.230
Mark Schonwetter: So why we live here.

470
00:55:11.550 --> 00:55:14.790
Mark Schonwetter: Why don't we live in peace.

471
00:55:15.990 --> 00:55:17.850
Mark Schonwetter: and harmony with each other.

472
00:55:19.500 --> 00:55:23.340
Mark Schonwetter: And said I said before, and i'm going to say again.

473
00:55:25.020 --> 00:55:28.830
Mark Schonwetter: We can accomplish much more and be so much more happy.

474
00:55:29.850 --> 00:55:36.210
Mark Schonwetter: When we can grab somebody given an authentic is the to go and try to kill it.

475
00:55:39.240 --> 00:55:39.840
very true.

476
00:55:40.920 --> 00:55:50.070
Ann Arnold: Thank you dad well, I want to thank everyone, I know there's some more questions that we were not able to get through and I apologize, the time is running out.

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00:55:50.340 --> 00:56:00.270
Ann Arnold: If you do want to reach out to us already will let you know we are online on social media both on Facebook and on instagram at together a journey for survival.

478
00:56:00.540 --> 00:56:14.760
Ann Arnold: Or at the foundation that my sister, and I have started in my father's honor the marginal water Holocaust education foundation, where we are hopefully paying it forward by giving grants to schools that would like to bring education into their curriculum.

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Ann Arnold: So ra will let you know and a lot of the questions also in the book, so I hope that you'll be able to get those answered and Ari Thank you again so much for having us it was wonderful and take it away.

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Ari Goldstein: Mark it's been amazing to listen to your story and i'm struck by the the courage and strength of your mom and also that how many righteous gentiles risked their own lives in order to save your family it's an extremely touching story and I can't think of a better.

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Ari Goldstein: message to leave us with on your show, so thank you for being with us and and thank you so much for facilitating interviewing.

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Ari Goldstein: today's program was recorded and will share a link to the recording and an email tomorrow, along with links to order the book a link to the Marshall and better education foundation than some other suggested resources so.

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Ari Goldstein: To everyone watching We thank you for being with us today, we have a museum in Jewish heritage and our partners at the National Museum of American Jewish history, and we wish everyone Nice and safe and meaningful afternoon.

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Ari Goldstein: Thank you everyone say and I before we go, I should also mention an hour you'll Michelle commemoration is this Sunday at 2pm Eastern the annual gathering of remembrance and will feature.

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Ari Goldstein: Several Holocaust survivors include members of our speakers Bureau as well as remarks from chuck schumer second gentlemen Doug em half.

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Ari Goldstein: alicia results son of the late Nobel laureate ellie's out and others so it'll be a very meaningful commemoration.

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Ari Goldstein: it's our way as a New York community of honoring know Michelle and we hope that those of you watching will join us, I will include a link to that as well in the follow up email, and it is in the chat right now.

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Ari Goldstein: Thank you all for being a part of our community for hearing mark story and take care.

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Thank you.