“Truus’ Children” Film Discussion

This program’s original recording transcript is below. This transcription was created automatically during a live program so may contain inaccurate transcriptions of some words.

Ari Goldstein: i'm Ari Goldstein Senior Public programs producer at the Museum of Jewish heritage, a living memorial to the Holocaust and it's a pleasure to welcome you all.

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Ari Goldstein: To today's discussion of truth children a remarkable new film about Dutch social worker truth weissmuller and her heroic actions during the Holocaust.

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Ari Goldstein: Hopefully, most of you joining us have already had a chance to stream the film via the private streaming link that was provided through the museum.

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Ari Goldstein: You still have until Tuesday September 28 to watch the film and we'll put that link in the zoom chat and just a moment.

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Ari Goldstein: Before we kick off today's program museum would like to think of the Netherlands diplomatic network in the United States for their partnership and generous support of today's Program.

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Ari Goldstein: And will turn to the Consul General the Kingdom of the Netherlands in New York Herman qualified new third force and welcome to mark's.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: Very much ra and, ladies and gentlemen, it is a privilege to be present today during the screening as discussion off the documentary true children.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: i'd like to express my appreciation and thanks to the Museum of Jewish heritage in New York for the partnership for partnering with us, the Dutch diplomatic network in the US, not just the consulate or Embassy and our other partners across the nation in organizing this event.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: One of our missions in the US is to continue to express our gratitude to the people who helped liberate us from Nazi occupation during World War Two.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: We thank the was veterans who fought the war, the women known collectively as rosie to revert.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: The riveter, the ones who fill the factories and the offices that man vacated fighting the war.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: Americans know these people well, either as individuals or as a group.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: But with this film we're highlighting someone Americans might not know that one production social work and resistance fighter through nice Member.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: Hers is truly incredible story.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: She was a key person in organizing kindertransport or the rescue effort to save the lives of up to 10,000 Jewish children in the run up to and during the early stages of World War Two.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: Jewish vascular is indeed hero of the Second World War, a hero of humanity.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: especially to the children, she said, many of them grew up to live normal lives in the fields of science, academia business art and much more.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: we're honored to have miss eels a power langston here today one of the children saved by Tuesday similar.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: in some way miss vascular is like Harriet tubman a woman born into slavery, an abolitionist from the 19th century.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: She was a famous count of the underground railroad will let a dozen of missions to help escape and slave people to freedom in the north.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: Well, there are many differences of course between these two women and their circumstances under which they did their humanitarian work they both were kindred spirits they both transported people, children to safety, a great personal risk.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: This documentary is more relevant now than ever, there is a worldwide rise in anti semitism.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: It is important to commemorate people were fighting for their rights and we're rising above all else, to save the lives of others.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: The story of twitch last pillar teaches us important lessons about humanity about religious freedom and about bravery.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: It is important to keep discussing and keep reflecting on these essential values.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: My gratitude goes out to Dutch filmmakers have Lester holt and Jessica from thin who have brought the story of two sides mentor to life also to me.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: long after she was forgotten by history, well, she will no longer be forgotten thanks for your efforts to making this both devastating and highly inspiring documentary Thank you very much enjoyed the program Thank you thank.

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Ari Goldstein: You, thank you for those beautiful words of welcome to the concert General at the Kingdom of the Netherlands in New York.

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Ari Goldstein: When we first saw the film at the museum, we felt it was an essential story for the same reasons that you shared.

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Ari Goldstein: Consul General and it's our real pleasure to share it with our audience today, and we hope all of you, joining will become ambassadors for this story and it's lessons and share them in your lives.

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Ari Goldstein: And just a moment we'll turn to the discussion today as the console general mentioned, we are joined by Elsa Bauer links door, one of the children saved by true spice Miller and by the to.

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Ari Goldstein: director isn't this incredible film JESSICA Fontaine and panelist you're hooked.

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Ari Goldstein: The conversation between the three of them will be moderated by Michael assignments in.

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Ari Goldstein: Had a public outreach and archivist at the Leo back institute among his many projects, he has curated an excellent kindertransport exhibition at the OPEC institute so Michael Elsa JESSICA pamela.

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Ari Goldstein: Thank you all for being here, we will play the trailer to the film and just a moment and then we'll kick off the discussion.

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Ari Goldstein: As a reminder, you have until Tuesday September 28 to stream the film at the link that's in the zoom chat.

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Ari Goldstein: And please feel free to share questions for our panelists at any time during the discussion and we'll get to them towards the end of the hour, without further ado here's the trailer to children.

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because she saved me he saved a whole generation to generation.

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At the station, there was a chain coming along with children and Lady big lady with the hat Elvis.

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And she said to my mother look here she realized what was going on city okay tomorrow and coming again, but the transport children and up there with the children, and I take them along.

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He did not have it.

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wasn't just wasn't just ideas.

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truce nice really you know they were all because she made, such as he saved our lives, she literally we, I mean we flirted with that.

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So I think that it is the ultimate bravery.

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Michael Simonson: Hello everyone, my name is Michael Simon son in the Director of Public outreach at the Leo Beck Institute and before we begin our discussion.

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Michael Simonson: And I want to thank the Museum of Jewish heritage for lady me as a moderator for it so welcome JESSICA pamela Elsa and I wanted to talk a little bit of course um I think it's an obvious question to begin the discussion and.

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Michael Simonson: What the starting point was Jessica and pamela for you in making this movie and I guess really in that regard, because she's such an unknown figure.

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Michael Simonson: We I was wondering how you first heard of to thrive villar and her work, I know that i'm before you answer.

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Michael Simonson: A lot of people know i'm Nicholas winton who also did an amazing amount of work, saving children asset, particularly from Czechoslovakia.

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Michael Simonson: And, but truth is so little known though she also saved so many hundreds of thousands of children as well, and so i'd like to hear two things really how you both first found out about her and, secondly, why nobody generally knows about her.

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Michael Simonson: So JESSICA, what do you want to start with that.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: No, I think that kind.

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Jessica van Tijn: Of I was already getting ready.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: With the, the first part of your question, because the second part is is more difficult.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: We were approached by rabbi loaded from the come, he was writing the rabbi and he was writing a novel about a kindertransport.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And he suggested that we should make a documentary about the kindertransport because also a lot of people in the Netherlands, they never heard of the Guinness transport.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Jewish children who may came from Germany theater Netherlands and after they went to England and just before the war.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And then Jessica and and and I we started to do research about the kindertransport and what happens then was all the time, the name of fish wiseman or popped up and we were so surprised.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: That we never heard her name before that we her name is not in history books so then we start to do we should research about her and we found out more and more about this brave woman.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And then we decided to make a documentary film about her because we thought that this is what she deserves, and so the whole adventure started and it took us three and a half years to make this documentary.

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Jessica van Tijn: It was mainly because of the research, because one once we decided that she was worth of a documentary.

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Jessica van Tijn: We thought in the beginning, well, what if we try to find a few of the children that she saved back then, and try to find them back and interview them if they they are willing to.

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Jessica van Tijn: And if we do our research, well, we might find even four or five children, and then we might have a really interesting story.

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Jessica van Tijn: And so, when we started, we had a help of one of Dutch historian who was actually.

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Jessica van Tijn: Already starting some softer research.

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Jessica van Tijn: towards the children that stayed in Holland, so they came from Germany they came from Czechoslovakia, they came from Poland and then like I said they went through Holland and.

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Jessica van Tijn: Most of them went on boats to England, but some of them stayed behind because there was not enough room.

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Jessica van Tijn: On the boats, or because they couldn't find that specific week they couldn't find enough families in England or for whatever reason, they they made it to Holland and not to England.

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Jessica van Tijn: So she had started and gave us a sort of a list with some names, with some emails, and so we started and then.

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Jessica van Tijn: Before we knew we found the first people, we decided that we couldn't wait so.

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Jessica van Tijn: Normally, when we want to make a documentary we make sure that we have all the finances in order, and then we start the whole project in this case, we were so lucky to find the first children, children now between 83 and 97 I think.

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Jessica van Tijn: We decided to go as soon as we could not to wait till we would have all the money not to wait till we would have all the children that we could possibly find by now, we would do it, one by one, to make sure that we would not miss out on any opportunities.

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Jessica van Tijn: So that's how it all started and then eventually research became more difficult, but it became more easy as well, both things at the same time.

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Jessica van Tijn: And more difficult because some of them are very hard to find back, we have some leads because of interviews with tuesday's written books or.

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Jessica van Tijn: In publications, but we couldn't find them and then it took sometimes even a couple of months, through Facebook or other contacts that we had to find someone back.

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Jessica van Tijn: But yes we started I think pema knows even better within a few months we went out to do, the first interviews in England, and so, in the end we were so lucky to find 23 people back.

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Jessica van Tijn: One of them, of course, in the attendance today and and you're so lucky that we have met several times now actually both in Germany and interviewing the at the place where she was born.

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Jessica van Tijn: This is also, of course.

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Jessica van Tijn: So yeah in the end it was a long, long road, because of finances because of research and because of traveling through to so many places in the rules to make sure that we could interview older children.

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Michael Simonson: yeah I.

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Jessica van Tijn: Think, the second part of your question is not answered yes that's a complicated one in the sense like why wasn't she known or before the documentary.

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Jessica van Tijn: We try to share a little bit of light on that in the document already because it's a complicated answer it's it has different aspects to it.

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Jessica van Tijn: But one of them most definitely is the fact that she was a woman and strange as that might sound it's it's a big part of the truth.

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Jessica van Tijn: When we research, a little bit more on this specific aspect of of her life, we found out that's not only to advisement or but many, many of the women in the resistance.

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Jessica van Tijn: And in Holland, but most definitely in other countries as well, were left out of history books history writing even.

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Jessica van Tijn: And this is because they were focused on all the things that the resistance people had done and it was sort of impossible to think that women were capable of doing that.

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Jessica van Tijn: there's one historian in in Holland, she was part of the neil's, which is the Institute for more research when she was the head of the of that.

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Jessica van Tijn: Institute, she said that she thinks that's probably even one third of all of the people in resistance have been women in very courageous roles, not only.

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Jessica van Tijn: Preparing lunch for their husbands, who then went out and forced the fight outside, but really like the masterminds there's a few women who were leading people off of groups.

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Jessica van Tijn: In Holland and outside of Ireland, so there was no real reason to leave them out of history, but yeah that's how it went, and this is one of our missions with the movie as well.

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Jessica van Tijn: We think it's very important to give her that place in history because of the inspiration that that comes from that as well for for girls growing up now if they see the movie and they know that you're capable of doing that even.

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Jessica van Tijn: When you're a woman or maybe because you are born, I think that's a very important goal for us to to get that message so.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: I think, Michael is also a combination of factors of reason why she is not very well known.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: As sound as weird as it sounds to JASMINE was also a very modest woman she gave a couple of interviews.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: But not a lot in the 1960s, she was asked for her memoirs, and so there is one book.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: about what she did in the Second World War, but she she didn't like to talk about it a lot she didn't have children by herself, we think that's also an important reason.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And one other reason we think is tues knew how to do with the Germans and she also spoke about the good Germans, a lot of people after the war of pony that were that maybe.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: She worked together with the Germans and there was also a lot of jealousy in a way, what she did.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: So I think it's a combination of of of reason of things, why she's not very well known and, of course, we hope, through this documentary and this will change it's already changing there's a lot more now on the Internet than before we started.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: yeah it's it's it's interesting yeah.

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Michael Simonson: I think it's in my own work and the work of my colleagues at the legal back, for example, putting together this kindertransport exhibit that we did it with the CV university and you see him I say.

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Michael Simonson: it's it's interesting to see how many people i've seen worked organizing these kindertransport and how many of them were actually women who are involved in social work.

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Michael Simonson: For taking care of children being statistically women's work as well and refugee work being done by women and with only natural, but yet yet.

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Michael Simonson: The individual stories are of these people are not very well known and with truth, who is quite a not not a small person, by any means in the world of saving children.

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Jessica van Tijn: and her dad also really a mastermind because she was working with a lot of organizations and that that already was very important, she was like.

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Jessica van Tijn: In the middle of this web of of everyone, because when we found back information in.

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Jessica van Tijn: The archives, it was always her name somewhere and then like arrows towards everyone else or she would be there and doing this, and she would give orders, but I mean the mastermind part came where she had.

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Jessica van Tijn: always a solution for something I mean it looks like a complete last mission and she would get her.

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Jessica van Tijn: wits to is and she would have her contacts and she would have her determination and everything in order and then see what do it, I mean and that's the part where you can't just put her outside of history books.

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Jessica van Tijn: When she masterminded so many things she was even part of an very important group led by a Dutch woman and even there after the award is very brave woman who was the leader of this important group she wrote.

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Jessica van Tijn: A letter to truce, stating that the they would always tell each other.

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Jessica van Tijn: that she was to brave one I mean in a group of brave people than the leader of that group rights to her that she was to break one so yeah it seems remarkable one interesting thing that I would like us to talk about as well.

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Jessica van Tijn: We think one of the aspects of not being that unknown is also because she wasn't always nice he wasn't nice to all people when she needed to be nasty she would I mean she would not.

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Jessica van Tijn: Share shied away if she had to make enemies or enemies, maybe not but I mean say out loud what she thought and everything, but then there was the truth, as well with the children, and I think it was it might be able to.

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Jessica van Tijn: To go into that a little bit more because it's very interesting how she was so sweet to at least what we heard from many of the children we interview what a different person, she was when she was around children yeah.

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Michael Simonson: um so maybe you want to tell us, in fact, and a little bit about your own relationship with truth, I know that you met her, I believe I mean it's all in the movie as well, it was in front for right.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: Yes, well, I didn't meet her at one point she came to visit me in visit my adopted parents and me in in Venezuela.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: The reason, of course, that truth, especially was in our life was that she was in Holland and my parents had gone.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: To the Dutch West Indies and we needed the what the Dutch connection and I was also fortunate enough, they have been saved by twice was once at her home and then, once again at home, so I owe a lot to her.

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Michael Simonson: And what was she like, if I could ask.

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Michael Simonson: to live with we live that you do when and when did you first live with her.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: I didn't really live live with her what was what was.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: I was basically in a home in the Jewish.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: women's league home and no it isn't work and my mother had was not able to keep me and they were, and she had was willing to have me adopted and.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: My parents who wanted to adopt me were already in Holland, so that is how she you entered into our into my life there and she's the one who made the various arrangements in the first one, and then the second time I am definitely in the film so i'm not going to tell too much, but.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: I did did meet meet her in Venezuela and it was wonderful because she she had gone to the.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: that's Guiana, yet friends there and that's how she came to Venezuela and visited us so that was really very exciting.

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Michael Simonson: yeah I know you do talk about it a lot in the film.

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Michael Simonson: The relationship with her and.

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Michael Simonson: If I was going to ask, as well to go back to Jessica and pamela quickly that this work you've been doing, creating this film you've also, in a sense, created an archive.

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Michael Simonson: Of the children.

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Jessica van Tijn: that's still in the making, though.

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Michael Simonson: It talk more about how that developed and what you plan to do with this archive of interviews and information about all the children and the rescue work.

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Jessica van Tijn: Well, as as filmmakers were used to having much more footage of course, then you will be able to put into a documentary, but in this case.

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Jessica van Tijn: It was completely this balance, because we have like 90 hours of footage and the movies, like 90 something minutes.

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Jessica van Tijn: So that's one part that we knew that we had so much more than that, we could ever put into a documentary.

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Jessica van Tijn: But, more importantly, for the last I think one and a half, two years, maybe even well, while we were still in the making.

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Jessica van Tijn: Of the documentary we got so many requests from all over the world for from people that were interested in, we had a Facebook page, we had a website already up.

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Jessica van Tijn: And they were interested not only to see the, the end result and everything, but also in all the information that we were gathering.

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Jessica van Tijn: by visiting different archives around the world by interviewing all of those.

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Jessica van Tijn: People that were still able to to talk about their own story, so it was the first hand aspect of all those interviews that interested so much more people.

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Jessica van Tijn: Also, from universities people that are focused on Holocaust studies that thought that it was very important for them to be able to access the information.

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Jessica van Tijn: That we have so then slowly the idea grew on us to to not leave it with the documentary but to work on what is going to be the truth is, when our archives.

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Jessica van Tijn: And then those will contain a lot of everything that we research but also we will re edit all the interviews with 23 children.

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Jessica van Tijn: So that each of the children will have their own portraits sort of, so to say so, you could you can eventually click.

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Jessica van Tijn: On the photo of one of the children and then you get like a 15 minutes portrayed have done that specific person or in some of the case where we have interviewed a brother and a sister or two brothers, or even four sisters.

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Jessica van Tijn: We will make sure that those will be portraits within the family so that's a lot of extra information and we just want that to be accessible to everyone in the world that will be interested in the story into willing to.

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Jessica van Tijn: look up more information about her from all ages from all parts of the world.

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Jessica van Tijn: So yeah we're that's a very important mission and we're currently trying to get the finances in order as well it's it's always the the least attractive part of a story.

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Jessica van Tijn: But as filmmakers it's a very real one it's a it's a lot of work it's beautiful work to do, and it needs to be done and and we will, but we.

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Jessica van Tijn: We have to go in a pace that goes with the financing as well, so all of these afternoons, and all the invitations that we get around the world are very helpful for that as well, because it means that, step by step, we will we will make sure if everything can be executed as well from our.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Also, after the release of the documentary we found back three more children who are rescued by by twitch visual learner.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And one of the children.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: We were able officer documentary to to interview him and hopefully we can interview, the other two as well.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And this is, of course, you know, really, really special because we found already back 23 children who were saved by twos and now we found free more children and they deserve also their place in the archive.

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Michael Simonson: And when you first were looking for the children, what kind of resources, did you use, how did you find the first children.

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Michael Simonson: Then I assume those children might have known some other children and etc i'm just wondering where you found lifts of the children are documentation saying this child was saved by truth in particular.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: As JESSICA already mentioned when we started to do our research we got in touch with Miriam casing she's a historian and she did a lot of research on kindertransport and also about the German children who the refugee children who who stayed behind in the Netherlands and.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: I think it was the first meeting we had with her and then she told I was telling her well hopefully we find back six or seven children were saved by was Vice mayor.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And then she looked at me, she said no, no, no, you will find more children back, and I was kind of surprised and then she handed me a list.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: I think, with 13 or 14 names and because she found it was kind of a messenger list of the boldest lapham the ship, the last ship who left from a mountain.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And then JESSICA, and I wish you, there were telephone numbers, email addresses and we just started and we just started to call the children and surprisingly, a lot of children, they were using email and Facebook and so social media has a good side.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: But that's how it started and then some of the children new other children.

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Jessica van Tijn: Use was actually someone who was very hard to find back, we took a long time for us, we went we saw an interview that she wants gave in one of the islands that she had stayed in.

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Jessica van Tijn: Lifting for a couple of years and then we thought we were close and then we couldn't find her and then in her case names didn't help here, because there was Isabel and there was feels it and there was Bauer and lungs are.

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Jessica van Tijn: Like always when you have to try, really, really hard it's so so we've morning when when when things happen, and that has happened a couple of times, where where it took month for us to find someone back and sometimes.

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Jessica van Tijn: There was a book that pamela mentioned in the 60s, where she was interviewed she sat down with a journalist and he wrote down her notes her.

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Jessica van Tijn: Her thoughts on different things that she had been involved in.

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Jessica van Tijn: And she would mention children as well by name be called him this and that, or he was called this or oh yeah there was a sister and and then she was described.

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Jessica van Tijn: described the story of how she came to rescue this this little boy or that small girl or something, and that was a lead, for us, I mean we would have to name and then find try to find back.

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Jessica van Tijn: This person and in case of one of the storylines in the movie for those will have already seen it or if you you're gonna look at it it's the small boy, he is the.

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son.

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Jessica van Tijn: Of a an American drummer in a jazz band the band came to Europe in the worst of times they were in in Paris when war started the band had to leave there, but the boy was only two years old and his mother had died.

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Jessica van Tijn: at birth, so he left him behind the story was in the book and we really thought it was such an old story and and it had so many details of how she brought him to her house and he was there for a couple of weeks and.

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Jessica van Tijn: She didn't know what to do with him and the embassy couldn't take care of the boy, although they had asked her to pick him up in Paris and.

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Jessica van Tijn: etc, etc, and then that took a long, long time and, finally, I was able to to dial the number that someone gave to us and then this woman answers and.

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Jessica van Tijn: And pamela was talking to the woman and talking and talking and asking all those questions and telling what we were looking at what we were looking for and everything, and I was like.

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Jessica van Tijn: Can you ask about him, maybe, and then, finally, she had the courage and say like enter your husband and she said, like yeah he's sitting next to me.

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Jessica van Tijn: But she knew nothing.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Because we didn't know he was still alive.

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Jessica van Tijn: No, no, and she talked to him, and she said, like Well he does, I don't know the story, I will talk to him, and then you can call me i'll call you back within a week or something I don't even know if she mentioned.

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Jessica van Tijn: When she would call, but she didn't she didn't call work and then after a week or an eight days and, finally, after 10 days Pam had the courage to to pick up the phone again and to call her back and then you can you can tell the rest of the story of that second phone call.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Well, people will see it in documentary.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: documentary.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: It was an amazing encounter.

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Jessica van Tijn: Because he didn't know anything and then, when we decided in the end that we were going to go and visit him in the United States.

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Jessica van Tijn: It turned out one of the most beautiful encounters because of the unfolding of the story, just in front of our eyes and we realize, then there there's actually his whole.

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Jessica van Tijn: Being able to find peace with his past happens and just on the camera and it's just as raw as you see it in the documentary.

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Jessica van Tijn: and afterwards we kept in contact and we know that it was a very important day in his life people's well finding peace is one of the things that you need as well.

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Jessica van Tijn: And and being able, as a documentary maker to to get to that point where you can bring those kind of fees is is is very rewarding.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: weird things also happened during our research and and for something we did not have an explanation, for example, we interviewed Sophie shiner each one of the four sisters and she lives in through this.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And after the interview she asked me a digital radio interview Wolf and Joseph helm life, and I said no, I haven't I haven't heard of them I don't know them.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And then she told me, yes, they were also on the boat over there with the four of us on the board of love and I said I didn't I didn't see her her their name.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: In the in our research and then she told me, yes, somewhere, I have their telephone number and said, really.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And then she started to to go through papers and books and she couldn't find the number, she said, the i'm sure I have their number their telephone number they live in New York.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And then suddenly I don't know where from she came with it, yellow post it and then she handed over to me.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Their telephone number, and I could not believe I fold No, this is not the correct number and coming back and answer them I dial the number and, yes, this was a number of of wolf helm life.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And I told him that we're making the documentary and then he asked me yeah please call my brother.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: and me, we want to, of course, we want to take part in this documentary this was such a special I because they didn't know Sophie Shan Shan REACH and so fi new the writers, who were on the boat example with her really special.

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Michael Simonson: um I know that i'm in the story of the Nicholas linton story to go back to that it was only much later, a lot of children realized he had been.

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Michael Simonson: An offense had saved them and I wondered if if, in the case of truth, if people knew if the tilt if the children at the time, knew who was saving them or this was a realization for children.

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Michael Simonson: You know, in the decades after the war, or even you in doing your work is when they found out who had saved them.

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Michael Simonson: um I think on the kindertransport itself so not the smaller rescue operations like that, as a boat, for example, Elsa what you were on but, like the larger transports and children from deanna did they know the truth is the woman who had shaved them.

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Jessica van Tijn: it's it's different for all of the children of what we decided to do for the movie was trying to find within those 10,000 children.

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Jessica van Tijn: More or less that that came on a trick in a transport or in general, all the children that you could say we're safe thanks to.

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Jessica van Tijn: Teresa as well, of course, it's very important to remark that she made all the time it was never to school save some money, it was always this this whole group of people working towards saving the children, but what we have done is narrowed down.

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Jessica van Tijn: to having a group of children that have real.

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Jessica van Tijn: had real contact with her during the world already, so this is why we.

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Jessica van Tijn: But a lot of the children in the movie where the ones that stayed for a year and little bit less or little more in in Amsterdam in the in the birth of his house.

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Jessica van Tijn: And that means that they were in regular contact with her, and they have very personal relationships with her they develop them because of the fact that they were there, sometimes for a year, she would organize all kinds of classes that she would make sure that if the boys were.

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Jessica van Tijn: getting off aged to like getting towards their 30th birthday, she would make arrangements for them to have classes and do their bar mitzvah in Amsterdam there's.

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Jessica van Tijn: A few boys in the in the movie that actually have their diploma from there from bar mitzvah in Amsterdam.

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Jessica van Tijn: So they have those special memories of their relationship with her, so I think going back to your question, they were very much aware of.

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Jessica van Tijn: tuesday's men are sometimes they didn't remember her name sometimes they had no clue that she was this big or that you've done so much more than just being On top of this group of.

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Jessica van Tijn: 70 something children in the birth of his head and sometimes they had been looking for her they knew that there was this woman and they knew that they were saved on this particular boat trip, for example.

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Jessica van Tijn: And one of the children in the movie says as well, I knew I wanted to know her as she, for example, went to work with Holocaust museums and was giving classes and and thing guiding.

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Jessica van Tijn: People around us all to to find a to hope and hopefully find a trace of this person that she knew had saved her, but she didn't know.

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Jessica van Tijn: Who she was exactly and then sometimes by sheer chance they found her back or not her in person, many didn't see her after the war, but at least they knew who the savior was.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And, of course, all the children who are on the board of the ship from.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Left from a mode and they're all remembered me 14 1940 that to that to tooth the children out of the birth of a nation house arrange the buses and went to 2am own.

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mm hmm.

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Jessica van Tijn: So, even the smallest, even when you're seven years old, or something, apparently, this is such an impactful day and events that you remember the smallest details like the children in the movie that talk about keystone up, for example, user was two years old, if i'm correct.

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Jessica van Tijn: So that's a little bit too young to have like real.

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Jessica van Tijn: Memories of that day, but if you're seven years old, you would say, well, what do you remember, even five, but then there's details that turned out to be the real detail so it's it's also those impactful.

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Jessica van Tijn: days in your life that you remember, for for the rest of your life, which is an interesting part of the documentary as well.

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Jessica van Tijn: Where at first, we were very cautious, while interviewing people of a certain age that you don't you can't be sure if what I remember, is what they remember or the facts that I remember.

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Jessica van Tijn: But then when we asked them about certain events that we knew they had all gone through they came up with the same details like the the biscuits on the on the boat on the 14th of May that they had eaten and.

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Jessica van Tijn: A few things during the interview that came up and that that we were so surprised that.

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Jessica van Tijn: All of those those details came back 70 plus years after day, it happens, and it was very reassuring for us as documentary makers that you know that.

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Jessica van Tijn: This is something that people could could put in to do a documentary because this is the truth, I mean you can also put some an interview in when it's their version of the truth, but this was very remarkable for for something that has taken place so such a long time ago.

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Michael Simonson: And also, I wanted to ask a little more about your continued relationship with truth, I know that she visited you a few times as you've already said and did you stay in contact with her through correspondence telephone calls, all through the years and.

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Michael Simonson: So to say.

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I.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: yeah I did have a chance to well, of course, I have correspondence with them that's one thing, and especially with her housekeeper sicher was the one who.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: They had lots lots of children and families who stayed at their home and that's where you know I stayed at home and her her husband loved children, so I address stayed in my memory to practically nowaday I when I hear the word mess out cada I said Oh, I know what that was and.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: I didn't have a chance to meet her once I think it may have been in in New York, when I was going to college, she was happened to be in New York.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: And then she had some family of her husband's nephew of is moved to Washington and so with the day His name was he was a base Miller and so obviously the name base Miller always was around me, which was there So yes, I can get in touch with them, yes, my letters letters mainly.

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Right right.

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Michael Simonson: So um.

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Michael Simonson: I think it's interesting one thing about the kindertransport facsimile is that it's not so I think you've done a great job, first of all with the film.

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Michael Simonson: i've got time when the because I I know from my own experience it's not so easy to find documentation about the kindertransport because so many organizations were involved actually in so many individuals and and at both in the country of origin for the children in route and then arrival.

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Michael Simonson: Now there's there's not so much paperwork actually to be found, about kindertransport very scattered, and so I think what you've done is really amazing.

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Michael Simonson: I wanted to say to put this story together also, I think I you know for this kindertransport exhibit that i've been part of people still say i've never heard this story, I never.

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Michael Simonson: I never knew about these kindertransport some what they were in the rescue of all this, children are the children and then to be able to dig up a story within that story.

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Michael Simonson: really takes a lot of research so, so I think you personally for for doing that kind of research discovering and then documenting this story, I have one more question.

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Michael Simonson: Before we move on to to.

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Michael Simonson: From the discussion to taking questions from the audience and I know that a lot of film making were recently have used animation to tell stories i'm from the Holocaust.

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Michael Simonson: And I can think there's a movie about Anne Frank there was the movie dear Freddie which the museum Jewish heritage elsewhere, how does a special.

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Michael Simonson: event here in your movie Elf leads as animation I thought that was interesting I wondered if you wanted to comment on it i'm assuming.

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Michael Simonson: Part of the reason for that is because of course there's no actual physical documentation on film like film footage of.

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Michael Simonson: Some of these events like when she goes to eichmann's office, I mean, who is around to take a picture card that.

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Michael Simonson: I, so I was wondering anyway, if you had any comments about the increasing use of the animation in telling these stories from the Second World War and the persecution of the Jews.

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Michael Simonson: There might not.

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Michael Simonson: be so much else to.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: tell myself, I wanted to I want saw the words the documentary the the.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: movie catch me if you can with Leonardo dicaprio and it also starts with an animation and I had kind of not a dream, but I really wanted to to one of our documentaries, to start with animation and also we thought it's a.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: good way to pull the audience into the documentary and some people there and they tell us after the documentary we're kind of surprised.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And I think this is a very good thing, because they don't know what's happening and the thing is that we you hear her voice and and and telling what she did in a very.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Fast way and we think also we want to attract a younger audience that's also the reason why we were we using animation but yeah it's it's something different, and I think I think it worked out.

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Jessica van Tijn: The the nice thing for us is like it's three four minutes, where you get so many different storylines and you're like pema says like you're like.

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Jessica van Tijn: Okay, how am I supposed to understand all of those lines and that's not important, the important thing is that apparently there's so much information.

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Jessica van Tijn: coming towards you and then slowly when you start to watch the documentary.

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Jessica van Tijn: and actually I think when you re watch the documentary then finally find out that all of those lines, because everything that's in the dog in those four minutes.

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Jessica van Tijn: has something to do with the rest of the movie so it's all a few adult most of the storylines in the in the whole of the documentary you find back in those four.

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Jessica van Tijn: minutes already, and then you find the beginning of the movie and you sit down and take it all in kind of but here awake after four minutes.

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Jessica van Tijn: yeah.

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Michael Simonson: I just sent from the cutting edge, I think that you're using animation for this.

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Michael Simonson: yeah we phenomenon.

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Jessica van Tijn: yeah it was a beautiful process as well, because the one who made the the animation.

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Jessica van Tijn: have never done like this, this kind of intimate animation or or like in the beginning of a movie and she had done.

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Jessica van Tijn: Things that we'd seen, and the reason we came to her was because of something beautiful that she done before.

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Jessica van Tijn: But the whole process as a maker, and then having the animation and going back and forth and finding the best way to incorporate the storylines and to give her more information about this item and scene, for example, and then her coming up with like.

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Jessica van Tijn: getting bigger in I mean it's it's beautiful as a maker as well to to be part of that process and to find the best way, and then we have two beautiful poster as well.

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Jessica van Tijn: Thanks to her, I mean it's her drawing of truce with all the children on the boat and yeah it comes to life in a different way and that's that's that's beautiful.

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Michael Simonson: um, so I think we'll move to the questions and we'll have the first question from the conference general actually he had a question for you so we'll have him turn on his camera again, and then you can go ahead and ask a question.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: Thank you, so what am I still on mute no.

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Jessica van Tijn: No, no, we can hear you.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: Now, thank you, thank you so much for just reflecting on the last part of your discussion, I felt a certain.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: degree of confusion at the beginning, because of the because of the amount of information and the different strands and all that But just what you described and I thought it was.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: I came to the conclusion that it was fitting because it in a way, potentially ahead reflected reality during those days, because obviously now we look back, we know the full story, or we know parts of the full story.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: But then, you know we didn't know what what happened and what was what was going to happen, so the confusion elements is is an important factor that you inserted in it and I helped me I thought I thought that was very strong and that links to my question and the character of.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: is very similar.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: to some degree, reminds me of the character, I have not known her in real life, but queen will Amina on her contemporary very strong, powerful willpower woman determined.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: And, but at the same time, obviously they they don't share a specific determination, and that is that Nice mother felt the the apparent urgency that time was running out, even before the war hit the Netherlands, and that even from 3738 39 she thought that she was on a life saving mission.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: Whereas, that was not.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: Obviously, there were those who felt that too, but that was not a general conviction and shared widely across you know let's let's keep it to the Netherlands, the whole society or politics does does your.

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Herman Quarles van Ufford: Research has shed new light on what actually was known at the time, and what people could have known and what they actually they should have known because she was so clear of mind.

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She had.

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Jessica van Tijn: that's a good question because it's something that has been on my mind, for a long time we've tried to incorporate maybe a little bit more information on that in the movie and then decided to.

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Jessica van Tijn: To focus on on different things in the movie but we found out quite shocking information about.

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Jessica van Tijn: Her and what she knew and also heard trying to get that information to, for example, the Dutch Government and not being taken too seriously, and that was very painful for her she's.

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Jessica van Tijn: been interviewed in that same book and that's she makes very clear in a few instance that she really tried to talk to the right people and tell them like listen I have information.

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Jessica van Tijn: That comes directly from the Germans, that they will get into Holland closely to the day they eventually walked into horns.

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Jessica van Tijn: And she wasn't taken seriously at all, she was sent away you don't know you think they're making.

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Jessica van Tijn: fun of you, they it's in the movie in beginning one line where she says like oh those Germans are playing tricks on you and stuff.

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Jessica van Tijn: This was the reaction she does when she was pretty pretty sure that the information the Germans gave to her was to collect information there's this story, we never knew that it was 100% correct was where they even invited her.

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Jessica van Tijn: Well hey he's vice mayor we're going to Holland, who would like to have to see you there or she would invite them all well if you come to my country, then have breakfast with me or joking we don't know if that was a real discussion that has gone on, but it was most definitely.

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Jessica van Tijn: affect that you went to.

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Jessica van Tijn: Then, half the Hague and she tried to talk to the right people and warn them and say like time is running out, everyday pounds and I have so many children, I have to do this, and I have to do that and i'm leaving to Paris tomorrow, but this was actually when she was taking user.

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Jessica van Tijn: The second on the second trip it's in the movie where she takes her to Paris and to the border from with Spain and then someone outside the Hague.

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Jessica van Tijn: offices approached her and said, like, I heard overheard your story I know.

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Jessica van Tijn: They won't take you for your word for it, but I know it's true, and if you take this girl tomorrow, please don't go to the Spanish border because it's going to be dangerous to come back.

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Jessica van Tijn: And this is why, apparently, he also was given to another family who then traveled with her to listen on least one, which was the place where the boats eventually took her to her parents waiting in.

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Jessica van Tijn: Aruba and then trees went back to Paris and then she got the news that infects what she already knew had happened that the Germans had walked into.

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Jessica van Tijn: Holland and she made it back in three days and that wasn't crazy undertaking, but nevertheless you knew she wanted to save those 74 children that she knew were still in his head so yeah that's a very direct question to your answer to your question.

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Jessica van Tijn: Should I know.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Yes, i'm sure that that a lot more people knew what was going on, also before the Second World War, and it was very well known that a lot of.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Refugees came from from Germany to the Netherlands or try to to come to the Netherlands and push what she did she was so great, but also, I think she.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: She fought, it was she had to do what she did, and a lot of people didn't dare to do this and and looked away and she didn't go away.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: And and but i'm sure that that, as I, as I said before, that that a lot more people knew was going on, and it was also in the papers that that that the Jewish people from Germany, came to the Netherlands.

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Jessica van Tijn: Okay Star Wars very well known that was 1938.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Also, before persona.

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Jessica van Tijn: So yeah it's it's just a recurring story as well about how you look away when things are happening it's it should be more difficult, nowadays, because of all the information we get from all the world, and he still managed to look at look away sometimes.

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Jessica van Tijn: it's the two different groups and probably more, but I mean the ones that face reality and and know that they can do something and then there's people that think it's too much or they can't do it.

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Jessica van Tijn: And then they choose to not do anything, and this is the important lesson that we try to get across as well with the documentary.

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Jessica van Tijn: about making the difference this is very important, when we talk to.

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Jessica van Tijn: younger people we've been in Germany talking to 18 years old they've seen the movie and they come with their own questions and their own observations and.

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Jessica van Tijn: In the audience sometimes our children that came from different places and that our.

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Jessica van Tijn: Children like children in the movie they had to leave their country and they had to start all over again, and then you have to mean one.

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Jessica van Tijn: group of people, the ones that 18 years old, that grew up in Germany and then there's people that came from abroad, and they watched a movie together.

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Jessica van Tijn: And it is a very important thing that they understand that you can make a difference and the difference is not saving 10,000 children, the difference is doing something for someone who really needs it.

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Jessica van Tijn: In them and there and that's the way she grew up and that's the way we think we honor her.

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Jessica van Tijn: way of being by by sending this message into the world honoring her.

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Jessica van Tijn: Thank you.

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Michael Simonson: i'm sorry there's some other questions here.

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Michael Simonson: We probably won't get to the mothers, many questions um what's this word Elsa have you written them words about your early life.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: You.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: know I have lots of.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: writers around me who have.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: written about me that my daughter, and some newspaper newspaper articles.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: things of that nature So yes, I interviewed a few times and also to all of us, museum i'm that i'm in there okay.

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Michael Simonson: um another question why additions to the filmmakers, why did you choose to use actors to show the scene with Eichmann rather than the animation you used elsewhere in the film.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Maybe that's also a question of.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: No it's it's really expensive to make an animation, but we think also we fought also that it's a good way to show.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: The audience what happens during the other than the discussion with icon and negotiation with IBM to use it better than animation.

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Jessica van Tijn: And also because it was very special that's officer, also a lot of research, we knew that there was this one interview.

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Jessica van Tijn: On T, apparently because we found like this transcriptions of an interview with tuesday's men are after the war.

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Jessica van Tijn: And then, after a long, long time of waiting and finding out where it was and getting it eventually to our house or to pamela house in this case.

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Jessica van Tijn: We found what you can hear in the movie the real original voice of tuesday's manner and, in this case, it was so interesting how she describes this whole scene.

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Jessica van Tijn: Going going to Vienna the morning before the way she walks into his office, the way he's sitting there that he has a dog, I mean it's it's almost like a script already so being able to use her actual.

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Jessica van Tijn: Words as we find them back in her interview makes it seem very strong, because what you see there is like well, you can imagine a little bit more of how those two people.

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Jessica van Tijn: would have related to each other and how they were very, very old couple in that situation, but.

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Jessica van Tijn: it's her words leading you through that scene, so in this case, it was for us a very strong way of expressing.

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Jessica van Tijn: These key seen actually in the movie because if it wasn't for that moment, then her bravery that took her to.

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Jessica van Tijn: Vienna that same day and her sex or whatever you want to call it to convincing one way or the other, to to listen to her and to believe sort of believe her when she said that she came from the.

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Jessica van Tijn: percent by the English government who was now willing to take him 10,000 children with all of these it sounded as like an unbelievable story, because she didn't have anything on paper, it was no official.

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Jessica van Tijn: letter that said, like we are sending tweets weissmuller on behalf or nothing like that she was her trying in that same own to convince him that she was talking and telling him the truth, so in animation maybe.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: that's crap but also to give you an impression one minutes.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Of animation will will take three weeks or four weeks and.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: throwing off painting and designing and it's time consuming I would I would love to to use more animation and documentaries, but it's it's really expensive.

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Michael Simonson: And maybe a last question i'm sorry we can get to.

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Michael Simonson: Our true shoes memoirs or her own memoirs available in English anywhere.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: To get.

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Michael Simonson: That yeah you know if their plans for that to happen.

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Jessica van Tijn: We have heard people talking about that would be interesting to have them in English, but as far as we know, there's no plan to really make a translation.

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Jessica van Tijn: Look let's.

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shows.

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Jessica van Tijn: it's interesting to read.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: it's about time yes yeah.

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Michael Simonson: Okay, one more question here, as I check the time to make sure what do we know about truces background the family, she came from her education, etc.

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Jessica van Tijn: She was born in a small town like.

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Jessica van Tijn: Omar like 40 something minutes outside of Amsterdam, which now, by the way, has a beautiful statue of tuesday's manner, this is all because of the movie.

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Jessica van Tijn: We came into contact with makers and it's a beautiful beautiful statue big it's truce with a lot of children around her it's bronze and it's overlooking the House let's see this morning she's born into.

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Jessica van Tijn: A family have a mom a stay at home stay at home mom and the father had a pharmacy and Alkmaar.

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Jessica van Tijn: But, more importantly, and probably something that had a stamp on the rest of her life, she was taught by them to always be there for others if they needed help, and this is something that she has clearly taken very seriously and literally.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: They gave her after the store to enter after the First World War and her parents to.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Austrian children who are under fat into her house.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: So, yes please was brought up to help other people who yeah we're in in bad bad situation for situations.

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Jessica van Tijn: Important for the parents and watching, it means that you teach by example and we strongly believe that that's the case in this soul and when she was a little girl, and she had to share her food or whatever in those times and then later on in life, she knew what to do.

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Michael Simonson: Thank you well, thank you all for a very interesting and lightning discussing about truth and thank you, a particularly for the work you've done in making this film.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: It was an honor.

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Michael Simonson: being more about her and her rescue work that's an important story so so thank you, I myself have been working on with others on this kindertransport exhibit and I myself knew the name and that she was a big part of it, but with your movie Now I know in your work, I know a lot more.

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Jessica van Tijn: Thank you so much, and the last opportunity to shed some light on what we already discussed it's we're in this process of getting the archive going so if any one of the people attending tonight's today.

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Jessica van Tijn: has some contacts or knows ways in which we can find more finance and everything to make sure that the the archives will be there and we hope within a year years time.

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Jessica van Tijn: Please contact us through it to us, through our website or email addresses we're willing to answer all questions and talk to you and make sure that we, we will be able to to make it a reality, so thank you for the opportunity.

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Thank.

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Ari Goldstein: Jessica and pamela thank you both so much for making this film telling the story continuing to preserve the records through the archives and make them accessible.

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Ari Goldstein: I was really our honor to work with you Elsa, thank you for being with us to share your own story and Michael, of course, for you know our moderator and helping us understand this history better.

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Ari Goldstein: We are so grateful to the Netherlands, diplomatic and that worked in the United States for sponsoring today's discussion as our partner and to the Consul General of the Netherlands in New York Herman qualifying offered for joining us.

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today.

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Ari Goldstein: The film will be available until Tuesday September 28 at the link in the zoom chat and you should feel free to get in touch with the museum or look for our follow up email tomorrow for any additional resources or questions wish everyone a great afternoon.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: Thank you so much.

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Ilse Bauer-Langsdorf: Thank you.

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Jessica van Tijn: bye bye.

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Pamela Sturhoofd: bye from Amsterdam.

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Ari Goldstein: night.

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good night.